At least it's a breakthrough for me lol... I've been frustrated for a long time at the limitations with using my guitar to trigger MIDI instruments. Of course you get some velocity information from the volume of the triggering note, and you can set pitch bend and tie the amplitude of the guitar signal to a CC, but it just felt really hard to control the sound. So the other day I was screwing around with MIDI Guitar (the software) and a vocoder, and found that if I use my guitar to trigger a lead sound on a synth, then fed the synth into a vocoder and used my guitar signal to modulate the vocoder, I was able to achieve an AMAZING amount of dynamic control over the sound! It really captures almost all the nuances of my playing, and you can also get an huge variety of tone depending on whether you use just your dry guitar signal, or amps or effects or a wah pedal or something. If you like using your guitar for MIDI, give this technique a shot and let me know how it works.

 

It seems interesting! Can you upload a little example somewhere? I haven't a midi guitar but sometimes I play flute thru a midi converter.

 

" ...then fed the synth into a vocoder and used my guitar signal to modulate the vocoder, I was able to achieve an AMAZING amount of dynamic control over the sound!"

Care to explain this part a little?

 

@Angie, yeah when I get a minute I'll definitely upload something to Soundcloud. @Dios, I'm using Ableton which has a built in Vocoder Plugin. I'm taking the incoming signal of my guitar and running that into a program called MIDI Guitar, which then converts it to MIDI. I then send that MIDI to a synth, like Massive or something. The way a vocoder works is you feed a sound through it, and then you feed another sound into it to modulate it. So I send the synth sound through, and use the input from my guitar to modulate it. Is that what you meant?

 

I am not adept at synths. So I still didn't get how to set up the signal flow properly. Can you or anyone else please make a vid or explain in more dumb ed down fashion?
Is it by chance a one off with the Ableton vocoder? Does it work as well with any vocoder/synth combo?

thanks a lot

 

Yes and no...
I know the programs involved, just being curious how you extend the amount of dynamic control when vocoding a guitar signal?

 

@dios, it's because it allows the sound of the synth to follow exactly along with the volume and tone of the guitar signal, as opposed to just being triggered like with a keyboard, where the note is on and then off and the velocity is set. So instead of the synth sound just stopping when it gets a key off signal, the sound will instead fade out naturally with the sustain of your guitar. Or it can pick up the characteristic of palm muting, or the effect of a wah pedal. Many possibilites, especially when you use a sustain pedal on the synth.

@oska, it should in principle work with any synth and vocoder combo.

 

lampwiikk
Didn't you write that the vocoder is after the synth you're playing..?
"...I was screwing around with MIDI Guitar (the software) and a vocoder, and found that if I use my guitar to trigger a lead sound on a synth, then fed the synth into a vocoder..."

How can you expand the dynamic control of a device with a vocoder (which is supposed to enhance the dynamics) if it is after the controlled device (Synth) in the signal chain.
Also shouldn't the synth signal/sound be heavily manipulated by now being fed to a vocoder.
And from there the signal goes to... where?
That's the part I'm intrigued with.

 

I believe your signal chain is Guitar > Midi Guitar Soft > Vocoder >Synth ..
Or..?
Guitar > Vocoder > Midi Guitar Soft > Synth

 

If I am understanding this correctly the key here is the MIDI guitar software more than the synth or vocoder isn't it? I think what you are saying is that the MIDI guitar software does a better job of representing your audio input specifically the dynamic changes you play. Better than what you previously used for guitar to midi interfacing. The MIDI guitar software is what is directly responsible for the better dynamic response. Is this not true? The synth you use for playback is kind of secondary to the point you are making here right?

 

Ok I was picturing the vocoder AFTER the MIDI guitar soft. So since it is before the MIDI guitar maybe then I understand that it helps this. I just wonder how well this would work if you eliminated the vocoder. I have been thinking the MIDI guitar is more responsible for the dynamic representation than the vocoder. So this should work with any guitar then i guess since it's an audio signal from the guitar. Yes very interesting!

 

What a great idea, lampwiikk! I'm building a Nord Modular patch right now

For everybody still wondering:
You have to split the audio signal from the guitar into two paths (using a Y cable or whatever).

One goes into the audio/midi converter, then Midi drives the synth, then the synth's output goes into the carrier input of the vocoder.

The other one goes into the vocoder's 'modulator' input.

The charm of this setup is that first, you use the guitar's sound to control the VCA's of the vocoder which is as precise as it could get, and second, feeding the guitar sound into the modulator input will 'trigger' only the frequency bands that are typical for the guitar, making the synth sound even more guitar-esque without being able to hear the guitar's original tone.

Thanks again lampwiikk.

 

@friction, YES! But see I'm doing it all within Ableton, so it's not a hardware Vocoder, perhaps that is what was confusing, but yeah in principle it should totally work the other way too. But in Ableton the routing is so simple to setup, although I'm sure the hardware route could get some amazing results too. And of course you could put an eq before the vocoder modulator input to boost the low frequencies of the guitar signal to get a wider range, but the guitar is a fairly full instrument anyway so it does pick up most of the sound of the synth, although I haven't tried it with a bass... that could be interesting too.

 

@lampwiikk: Somehow I feel like Trying: Distorted guitar=Carrier and my voice=Modulator.
Talkbox?
I'll see

 

Oh yeah baby, Frampton that shit up!

 

cool idea - one could also maybe sidechain their split signal back into it and use any sport of modulation from compression to granulation plugs.