Hi !

I'm searching for a ALL ROUND keyboard (controller or integrated, not my question).
I would love an hammer action one to play piano, BUT i wonder how it will work for ANYTHING ELSE non piano related : strings, synths ...

I was thinking about (semi) weighted too, as a compromise.
I'm not an acoustic piano player, so playing on a real piano is not going to happen soon.

Can you share your experience in this domain ?
Thanks !

 

I recently upgraded my master keyboard from M-Audio Keystation 88ES to Arturia KeyLab 88 mk2. Keystation has semi weighted spring action, and Keylab has hammer action (not full piano hammer action, but a compromise between piano feel and synth feel).

I had that Keystation 88ES for 11 years, so when I first played the much heavier keys of KeyLab, I honestly disliked it a bit. But after a few days of usage I already fell in love with the heavier action. I still can play anything I want, piano, synth, strings, you name it. As stupid as it might sound, when I play something like piano, I almost can feel the music a bit more if it makes any sense.

I really don't want to go back to semi-weighted keys, unless I really need to for some reason.

 

Only really awful for Hammond organ! Painful and impossible to play certain techniques required for authentic right hand organ.
Left hand lower register comping fine, obvs!
And I find hammer action fine for strings and most synth usages.
I do prefer mono Moog leads on a non-weighted, non-hammer action though.

Yeah they really dumbed it down after the good one, their flagship controller product the Keystation Pro 88 with its 60 controllers and graded hammer action board.
Yours had like a few controllers or something, And now I hear of semi-weighted spring, too? Not good.
I don't use any of their other products. No way!

 

Well, what would be a good suggestion if you planned on doing organ stuff a bunch?

 

To be fair, the thing only cost something like 180€ when I bought it new, and at the time I was happy even though it only had pitch and modulation wheels. BTW it still works, sometimes the modulation wheel is doing its own thing and activating even if I'm not using it, but other than that it's still more than usable, even after 11 years. I'd say pretty good bang for the buck

 

I got Seaboard RISE 49 and honestly it's very refreshing experience for me as former pianist to play pitch bends and vibratos with piano sounds

 

Session keys players such as myself have to have the chops for every keys based instrument.
Wasn't a "suggestion", was a warning of something that may not always be obvious.

I admit, all my Pro 88 models will sometimes send random stuff like that from various controllers sometimes. Luckily not detectable or affecting any sound though.
So yeah, I agree. Good bang for the buck!
Which is why I bought 2 of them at the time, and picked up another brand new but second hand one for peanuts!
So cheap I don't have to care about them! lol. All flight cased with Gator too.
Was just really disappointed when the next model, yours, was lacking all the controllers and wasn't graded hammer action.

 

Troubles with hammer action playing organ are the same with harpsichord

Try this with hammer action :

On the other side, this man is not human
His fingers blur the video
See his face between 1:10 and 1:14
Love him

I will consider a graded hammer action, not "full" hammer with 3 sensors and such.
I'm not going to be a virtuoso anyway on it, i try to be one on guitar already

Will probably buy a standalone keyboard, not only controller.
So i can get away from computers. And i have already controllers for pitch bend/modulation and such.

PS : as far as i can see, M-Audio migrated their hammer action from Keystation PRO to serie "Hammer". Usual marketing trick when something is not expansive enough

 

I don't think you understood my question at all sir? In fact, you don't. I'll clarify.

My question is the same as the OP, with a slight difference. What keyboard controller would you suggest for me, if I knew I was going to do organ-based chops on it?

So that's what my question was/is. I don't know what you were answering, but it wasn't what I was asking at all.

 

Semi weighted with aftertouch like what was in the old K2600XS Fatar variant. Or true waterfall w/aftertouch... Not going to find a keyed controller w/triple sensors that's not fully graded & geared directly toward piano players... With the MIDI 2.0 around the corner I hope manufacturers step their game up. We deserve optical laser sensors at this stage in tech for velocity.

 

I'm so sorry ! I read the "what" as "that" and didn't see it as a question, but an exclamation!
So this response below is total and utter twatness!

"blahblahmememeblah". So I'm a twat!
Uh, just a non-weighted, synth keyed controller is my answer to your question. I use an old Yamaha CS-1X for play the top register of the Hammond. Whilst changing the drawbars on the Pro 88!

Oooo you are right! I hadn't thought of that.
Not impossible with my finger chi on the Pro 88, but it would definitely be a chore!
So much easier with non weighted!
Well done!

edit: @Funk U Just seen your other comment after posting this! Was typing this as you were typing yours I guess!
Yes. Funny. Sorry again.

 

Anything newer?

@Smoove Grooves
I figured you misread it, no big deal. But thanks to you, and everyone for the info. I had to learn guitar on terrible things, not fit for what I was trying to learn/play. So I'm not trying to go through that again with piano. And since I don't have access to the acoustic versions of all these keys variants, I want to be mindful of how the these keyboard controllers translate to actual piano technique.

 

Last edited: Mar 29, 2021

http://www.fatar.com/

 

@Funk U... @Smoove Grooves is on point w/Fatar. I personally dont like their piano action, but they are the best for buck when it comes to making your own master controller. You could even contact them & ask to see if they can build you a specific kind of board. Dont quote me on it, but they do modifications for manufacturers all the time. I'm not sure they would do it for a 1 time buyer. But anything is possible these days, just look at Biden.

 

The thing is, in life it becomes just about being able to play.
Because every keybed is different, just as every Steinway I've played is different. And every Fender Rhodes.
The trick becomes about atuning youself to whatever controller you are playing, with the help of knowing how the various velocity curves of the device, prior to any velocity curves on the receiving end, work with your varied and different sample libs for ac. piano, ep, synths, etc.

 

I've had the Keystation Pro 88 for ages and it is great to play piano-like instruments. For Hammond I have to use a NORD electric, though.
With its waterfall keyboard it comes close to the real Hammond thing (I own an A 100).
On stage together with the Nord I use a CME (no longer available I'm afraid) , which gives me a mass of controllers and layers. Keys are nothing particular but fairly useable.
So, almost everything I like and use is no longer available as new, but you might find them on e-bay etc.

 

Yep, Fatar was exactly what I was leaning towards. And coincidentally enough, Nord was also on my list but I didn't have functional reason why I might use one of their products, but now it seems I do.

Exactly, I can play trash guitars, like Squiers, and make them sound good. But learning on poorly made instruments makes the learning process less fun.

 

@Funk U, I just got a Nord Lead 2 from Russia in B-stock condition for 400$. I was playing the current Nord Stage at my local store recently, and they do not feel very different to play. But about 1800$ difference. I'll dig into it more as a synth still than many users, but for a "regular" player the sounds are still really nice, pristine, and playable. The action is really quite good. It feels a little restrictive to me because I generally play on my Virus which is 61key, and the Clavia is 49. A good deal on one might work well for you; Nice capable synthesis and very playable at really good prices now.

But I do not mind my keyboards/synths not feeling the same as a piano; I actually prefer it. I don't generally use piano sounds, sometimes just some simple Rhodes chords from Lounge Lizard. I have a Ludwig upright from 1901 if I want to play a real piano or just to practice. I probably have 200+ hours of woodworking restoration into the thing, and probably a few grand of tuning/maintenance into it over the years.

tldr; but anyway +1 to a Nord. They are fairly simple, but very nice quality build, sound, and action.

 

@Pipotron3000
I reckon your best bet and answer is neither of what is in the thread title, but semi-weighted or waterfall/non-weighted.