I'm watching this show right now, funny this one came out while I'm also following this thread. this is Atticus Ross in Mix With The Masters (Inside Track #16).
Wasn't that what Audiogridder is about? multiple external boxes Ok, that was bad even for my low standards... I'll see myself out...
Aiming the comparison to such large generalist terms such as "ITB" and "OTB" brings too much confusion imho. It is really a case dependent analysis : linearity, non linearity, fidelity, color, dynamics, texture ect... To an extent, even the analog signal is made of steps. I think you should just know to the edge the limitations of each tool, what they really do -in detail (I insist)- to your sound instead of thinking what kind of savior magic they will bring to "crap gear recorded material and in a bad room". Much more of a hassle, less fun approach, but in the end, search aside or results satisfyingly reached, you can drive your creative thang in a much clearer view. Hardware processing -almost- always sound colossal, software generally needs a little more tweaking. A good taste little tube emulation after equing as an example among millions. Sure, you can be a little more of a beast with a 1176 than with a plug for example, because it will be more forgiving in a certain sense. But the gap is shrinking ridiculously nowadays ! An don't blame your Urei Plug because your snare is shitty. Because in our days the diff in sonics is less than 5%. In a context of a mix, I mean if your song isn't exclusively made of a snare sound (which is your absolute right), this drops to less than 1%. This put a little perspective I hope, to the question "the incidence of ITB vs. OTB in my song, or the song of my client". Of course a shitty plugin will mush the transients and alias the shit of the signal more, but an other (well coded, thought differently, with another tech ect...) would make a great diff ! And that one of the numerous advantages of digital. Digital Signal Processing is something insanely broad. Remember it. Still, an harsh eq is an harsh eq; analog, digital, fpga, or whatever. In a context of a master track, overdriven tape sounds shitty; Satin, Telefunken, JVC, Studer..... I don't think you cannot make something shine more in dsp than in analog today. Neither punch more. Neither feel more spacy. Just a different approach, different tools
We have to remember that basically what we are doing as audio engineers is basically messing with voltage amplifiers and modifiers to alter sound waves to come out of a the speakers in a way that is musical. When you take a real neve 1073 or any hardware piece and crank it you can just FEEL the power as the signal shoots out the speakers in a way you don't feel with a plugin or 0's and 1's. I think that has a lot to do with the power supply. Creating this wall of sound and upfront defined sound to shoot out of the speakers is something hardware excels at.
People seem to always underestimate the console. The console whether it's an api the box (12k) or a ssl(100k+) will make a massive difference.
If I had to sum up (pun intended) the sonic difference between ITB and OTB it would be one word...Depth. Go listen to the low mids and depth of a good transformer-based or tube preamp, and then A/B it with it's ITB brethren. If you're not tone deaf like Lil' Wayne playing a guitar solo - you'll hear and feel the difference.
98% of people here have never touched anything analog and are used to only plugins and vsts and then everyone likes or agrees with a statement like " differences are minimal". Useless to discuss anything in such an environment.
I'm not entirely sure on the technical aspects of why this is but I strongly believe it has to do with the amps and power supply. It's why plugins are better when they have their own dsp chip or devices like the McDSP APB-16 are more effective than native plugins. Or it's just the mesh between the unit and the a/d .... for example if you code a neve plugin and you crank it that plugin is just taking the digital signal and simulating the amplification digitally but your getting the power essentially from whatever volts your computer is running on. With a real unit you are getting this from your power supply. You can overload the channel in the daw w/ a plugin by cranking and it will make your d/a clip but this clipping is different from cranking it when you have a real unit and you clip the a/d.
One thing to not lose site of is that the performance, aesthetic and talent are key. Go listen to Elliot Smith's first album. He was just using SM57/58s. The White Album also had shite recording quality, listen to the first vinyl press. Early East Coast hip hop was using digital samplers with low res and they have some of the most fucking amazing beats still this day. I think we're just used to hearing crap hyped music being shoved down out throats by the music biz. You can make a great record with your phone if you have the talent and mind to do it.
I think it's apples and oranges. You're talking about DSP math in the digital domain vs voltage, transformers, physical components, etc in the analog domain. Also you must take into account 3rd order and 2nd order harmonic distortion and non- linearity that are still more musical in the analog domain. beyond the scope of this thread.
People go analog to drive it this has to do with power at the end of the day. To compare a daw or plugins vs ssl or real units is silly. It's better than nothing but one literally drives your electric bill up $500+ a month and the other uses at the most 110 voltz and that's less than what most microwaves use.
I'm not going to this whole analog/digital, ITB/OTB discussion. But that's a bullshit comparison, and people know it. Why? Say Pink Floyd's DSotM was indeed analog and OTB sure. You know what they also had? All the time to write and rehearse, they could basically live in the studio for yonks, had access to the best gear, be it instruments, mics, amps. And then of course the best mixing stuff they had then. Also people mixing, producing and mastering were best of the best. Basically they had budget the size of something that comes straight outta Goddesses ass. Most stuff done OTB these days don't have that. And if something does, and given the same allowances as PF but mixed on top of the line PT rig it would not make fuck-all difference. Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2021
I dont say scheps omni channel or similar is not working very well or that the hw/itb difference is audible for the end users .
Forgive me , sounds like not so mint gear and not so proper set up (the part bout clicks,hum and hiss ).
Schepps is just selling you his plugins on all his videos.Why is his studio full of hardware if he works 100% ITB?What is the reason of his analog desk in front of him?
Andrew Scheps - Sold His Neve 8068 And Mixes Totally In The Box! A Peek Inside His Audio Worldview! 2nd of March 2021
Personally, I think it depends on what platform you're the most comfortable with, and ITB is a great option for those who either don't have tons of space for gear, or thousands of dollars to spend on hardware, it's more in "who's" doing the mixing and mastering, and less in the tools, if you don't know what you're doing, it doesn't matter if it's ITB or OTB......IMHO
