How to develop the ability to play, what you hear in your head?

Discussion in 'Education' started by ArticStorm, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    Live does this already as built in feature AUDIO->MIDI and all DAWs that have a tuning feature can do this as well. Melodyne, etc, can also convert your tones to midi notes.
     
  2. RealBananas

    RealBananas Kapellmeister

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    Also please take into account that "absolute pitch" or "relative pitch" are not skills that you can have or not have. This boolean duality is just not what it is. If you spend time with it, you will be better at identifying stuff.
    In other music systems there are more than 12 notes per octave, or they are not evenly distributed, etc.
    Besides, some instruments have different overtone structures than stringed or wind instruments (e.g. bells), therefore they cannot be played simultaneously using the same intervals or chords as the common music system suggests.
     
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  3. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Audiosexual

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    yeah i know but its not really in realtime, but with melodyne, we could make it probably almost in real time? Might have to try it? But i wont be as clean as this vochla mic ofc.

    think i will run a challenge: 30 days Ear training, with that functional ear trainer, i found for windows. like 20 questions everyday with multiple ways of making it harder, starting with c-major - only unison interval for now.
     
  4. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Audiosexual

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    Hope i have this right: one from the pitches you cant develop, if u dont have/develop it as a kid. Think it was absolute pitch, when you hear a siren and u can play it instant out of context on the piano.

    the other one, relative pitch you can develop with this functional ear trainer i mentioned or the apps. But it depends so hardcore on investing time and finding a way to enjoy it. (but i guess it is maybe worth it?) I think so ...

    We have pandemic, so i have a lot of time and even if i get 5% better i would be very happy with it.
     
  5. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    Absolute pitch: You pick up an instrument and tune it or at least get within 10-20 cents with no help. I used to be able to do this easily, but it seems to be waning with age a little. Or

    Relative pitch means you identify an interval once given a root.

    Singers do this naturally if they are singing in key or harmonically in mode. It is also the ability to tell when someone has played a wrong note or recognize non-harmonic dissonance, most of us can do this to some extent and all of us can get better at it. Relative pitch means you can recognize the same tone is being played an octave up/down, identify a third, ect...
     
  6. Benno de Bruin

    Benno de Bruin Kapellmeister

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    No i'm talking about perfect or absolute pitch. Relative pitch is what you learn when practising intervals, triads, scales etc. I'm aware that it's fairly rare, but my point is, many people can learn it, contrary to what people thought ages ago. I'm not saying it's necessary, but it helps.
     
  7. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    Church bells are tuned, tubular bells, Alpine Cow Bells and of course the most magnificent bell instrument that I personally ever heard in the flesch, the Carillon at Rochester University...so yes, bells can be played using intervals or chords as the common music system suggests.

     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  8. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    @Lois Lane

    I don't think @RealBananas implied that bells can not be tuned.

    They do have a different harmonic structure and overtones from some more purpose built instruments especially in the sustain and decay of notes and when played together mono phonically it creates a dissonance in the decay of the tones.

    This is not always undesirable or unpleasant though. Think of the difference in decay and sustain that singing bowl exhibits when struck versus when it is bowed, it is basically a violin and a bell at the same time.
     
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  9. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    I still disagree as shown by the dampening technique shown in the Carillon video. As well, a xylophone which is very close to a bell and akin to one albeit in a flattened shape, can be played with other instruments. A fuzzed out/loud distorted, compressed guitar can sustain infinately but through technique be controlled. And of course there is this which I must have listened to 500 times as a teen...

    And I sing along with the church bells as they clang away in my village from time to time.
     
  10. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    I see what you are saying and like I said it's not necessarily unpleasant and dampening removes the issue completely.

    I think we are classifying different things as bells, but hey the more the merrier as long as it sounds good I dig it.
     
  11. EddieXx

    EddieXx Audiosexual

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    ..
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  12. RealBananas

    RealBananas Kapellmeister

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    Let's get technical :disco:

    Check out this paper from 1987:
    https://homes.esat.kuleuven.be/~compi/demos/AuditoryDemonstrations/402660.pdf
    (Still one of the most amazing works in the field of auditory perception.)

    Of course it is hard to understand the stuff without the sound demonstrations from the CD, which is hard to get:
    https://www.discogs.com/No-Artist-Auditory-Demonstrations/release/2854226

    Therefore, please feel free to download it from here as long as it is available :winker:
    http://www.rctn.org/bruno/data/auditory_demonstrations/ASA-auditory-demonstrations/

    I am referring especially to the demos 58 to 61 ("Tones And Tuning With Stretched Partials").
    Makers of bells, and mallets or percussion instruments in general, have a hard time in "finetuning" their instrument's sound to make the overtones just right.
    But it is easy for synthesizers to control the overtone structure in a way that pitch recognition in the traditional sense will fail.
     
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  13. phumb-reh

    phumb-reh Guest

    Well, what works for me is just recording myself singing for the ideas. Even if I don't get it correct, there's still the rhythm and dynamics to work with.

    Also, if you do play an instrument then when practicing sing the notes out as well if possible. Say I'm playing E-minor on the guitar then I play E F# G A B C D E and I'll sing "Eeeeeh Fiissss Geeee Aaaah" and so on. I found out that for me it makes easier to record those "in my head" bits way easier.
     
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  14. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    I was always able to play what I heard in my head, but I was barely able to hit correct keys/notes,
    I guess it's matter of practice, nothing mysterious
    :chilling:
     
  15. MarkyMW

    MarkyMW Platinum Record

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    I decided very early on when learning the guitar to always have it next to me when at home so I could try to play along with the TV or radio. I stuck at it, (started by picking on single notes and guessing what pentatonic shape might fit) and a few years on, now it's pretty much second nature to play along with random pieces of music.. If you can play what you hear, you can play what you hum, or sing.

    Find a way that you find rewarding to train your ears to work with your fingers. Apps, learning songs, playing one note at a time to music you've never heard before to work out a scale that fits, whatever works for you. Take it slow and enjoy the journey
     
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  16. ACAS

    ACAS Kapellmeister

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    Most methodologies for learning and performing music correctly are still mysteries. One of those secrets is this secret.

    If these methods were not a secret, everyone would be a prominent composer now.

    You may perform simple melodies with newfangled methods, but when it comes to complex tasks, very systematic and intelligent methods are needed which are not handily accessible.

    Unfortunately, not all the training that a musician needs to produce prodigious music is available. Instructional videos also usually teach very general contents, and there are no specific ways to learn music properly.
     
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  17. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Audiosexual

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    In a way you can start from the general content and find our own way i guess.

    I guess maybe u really need somebody more advanced to give you some more insight? Dunno i dont have anyone ... so i will explore this alone and since its only a hobby for me, i dont care that much.

    Functional Ear Training app, i did today:
    Ive done 100 more of these questions today, added half in it: still c-major minor and major second, compared them to each other and unison.
    thats actual fun, but its still very hard for me. when i get distracted i lose the orientation and im not able to tell which tone i just heard.
    but thats normal, it was the 2nd day.
     
  18. Kluster

    Kluster Audiosexual

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    My sister took piano lessons for three years.
    One day I sat down at the piano and was playing better than her in five minutes.
    Since I had attention deficit disorder as a kid I didn't know I was supposed to be afraid of failure :dunno:
     
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  19. Donut Nyamer

    Donut Nyamer Audiosexual

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    I can't pretend I actually know the answer to this problem because I don't think I can just pull the music out of my head naturally & quickly either. It comes from years & years of practicing for me.

    But what I find helps me is doing just that, taking time to jam & practice whatever it is you do daily. That's it, no real rules other than to do something every day. Once you hit a roadblock, then take a a week or 2 off if you can.

    Personally I struggle to disconnect from what I'm doing. I preach to others about taking breaks so well but never do a lick of it myself. Well HA! I took 2 weeks off & played a game without worrying about anything & it felt great.

    I told myself to not feel guilty about it. I looked to see when was the last time I played a video game & it was 2017. I actually didn't realize it was that long, but now it's time to return to the work again, but this time more refreshed.
     
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  20. Donut Nyamer

    Donut Nyamer Audiosexual

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    Sorry I should have given examples of what I mean. I like to write in a jam based sort of way. Just sitting down with my instruments & banging out riffs then building onto them as I try different variations.

    If you are dry for ideas, then crank your radio up a bit then steal a riff from that as you play along, then give THAT variations until it's your own riff. Once you have that, the rest of it kind of writes itself.
     
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