Very nice cover. I like this type of mixing. You can feel drums. Stereo field is nice. Well done.

For me it's just "modern" type of mixing and everything modern just should sounds like this.
Why people do remasters?
I don't know. But I think because their tracks doesn't properly used sub. Kick is not punchy, bass is muddy, stereo field is too flat. They fixing it and want to sounds like this cover or this example track. They want sounds good. Use the whole potential of "modern" stereo system 2.1 where the good strong sub is the standard.

For me sub is very important and add a much taste to the whole picture.
Track without a sub is like cheesburger without a meat.

 

Last edited: Feb 24, 2021

Really do You think like that or trolling?
If You really think like that. I guess You are amateur and just start Your journey with producing music.
I really must explain You this? xD
Okey then.
Pros can split sounds in Their heads. They can extract in mind interesting part like noise, hi-hats, vocal, snare, kick or bass.
Focus only on this part and expand interesting details.
Only noobs listen to only whole picture because They can't split sound in their head.
Pros when analyse a track listen to the wole picture at the end. When single parts sounds good.
I'm not a pro but I can split sounds in my mind while listening. You can train this by listening and analising a lot of tracks and making music. Multitracks are helpful at the beginning too. When I started I listened 30K tracks per year.
I'm not comment the whole picture because I first analyse bass and kick and this focus my attention because it's a fresh music and didn't sounds modern to nowadays standards. I don't like it. I post a comment about this because someone wants this kick and title of the thread was "These ladies teach you how to do it". But this isn't good example to learn if You want sounds good for nowadays standards.
Guys I'm really not a pro! And my name for shure is not a Steven Slate but who knows. Hue hehe hue he

 

You bring a very important point. It should be discussed in its own thread due to its importance. Mixing trends have always existed. Indeed, some are mandatory if you want to increase your chances of charting a track. For example, with streaming, the peak-normalized playback has negatively impacted the sound of music releases. As a mixer, you must make compromises that go against how you "used to mix" in order to squeeze the best playback volume out of the streaming algorithms. In other words, you can't be mixing exactly as you did back in the 1980s or 1990s.

 

Grammy is just a joke and doesn't mean a track is good or not.I listened some days ago Deadmau5's Polyphobia and I can't believe this deserves a Grammy.These Grammy nominations are rather a matter of friends and politics ideas.

 

There has always been a war, and at best a quarrel, between artists and mixing and mastering engineers.

In the past, the emphasis was on artists, and artists had the first and last say, but with the passage of time and the expansion of studios, the status of artists declined, and it was the mix engineers who were placed on highest honor stages.

Musical vision of the artists is usually greater than the musical vision of the mix engineers. That's why the works that were produced in the past were at a higher level in terms of musicality, that's why they have remained in the minds of their listeners in the form of different decades.

Nowadays, all the music production work is usually done by one person, and usually that person's priority is to focus on different aspects of the sound rather than the artistic vision of the work. That is why, perhaps, in terms of sound, the works are much better than before, but musically, they are in no way comparable to the past.

The solution is to increase the artistic visibility among all people.

 

still working man.

 

You are almost right, but as i explained earlier, the absense of sub bass is a "style approach" rather than a mistake, if you know what i mean. I mean, if you can find any of sub lows in early Depeche Mode it probably happened by mistake hehehe. A good deal of early 80's electro pop tunes were considered dance tracks but they were differentiating themselves from the post-disco and electronic dance scene that was emerging after the supposed "death" of disco in '79. By all means, Nikos's productions are emulating that early to mid 80s Depeche Mode sound and if you can find any sub lows on tracks like the one i post below for instance, i 'll eat my words hehe. (You can notice Vince Clark in that first Depeche Mode single, shortly afterwards he left the band and went to form Yazoo):

Cheers

 

What's 3 dimensional mix? Is there an explaination or everyone percieves this with time. Any reference videos/blogs/music examples would help.

 

Yeah. Stylistic type of thing for shure but there are some songs which have bass not fitting well and sounds little ugly on modern systems and probably fixed in remaster.
This song doesn't have bass. But still on kick uses subtle punch on subwoofer. Whole song a synthesizer send subtle sound to sub. It's flat, little weird.
Or maybe it's mine wrongly configured crappy audio system

 

I find this a bit superficial, no offense. Engineering, academically speaking, is a craft not an art. Mix engineers per se, can never be perceived as creators and writers although many times their artistic contribution can exceed any expectations. If somehow by "mix engineers being placed on highest honor stages" you mean the (self-proclaimed) "electronic producers" of our times, you have a point but still even those, should first and foremost be considered musicians by definition, even when all they know is how to use the fkn computer mouse and their DAW. I mean if you think of Liam Howlett or Skrillex mix engineers, then you better think again.
There will always be different approaches and opinions in artistic expression. The more people that are involved in one project the more opinions will be heard. One thing's for sure though, from the moment the music industry embraced Producers to see through an album made from A to Z, nobody but them had the last word. From George Martin being called -and not without good reason- the fifth Beatle to Phil Spector to Berry Gordy etc etc, this list spans a good deal of such diverse charismatic personas that many of them are acclaimed and innovative musicians who pushed the envelope in their own right: Brian Eno, Quincy Jones, Jeff Lynne, Trevor Horn, Nile Rodgers the list goes on and on.
For me, being forever torn between mixing/producing and songwriting/gigging, every aspect of music production indicates the need for an artistic "vain", so to speak. There would be no Dark Side Of The Moon as we know it without Alan Parsons' contribution. And surely there would be no Alan Parsons Project as we know it if he didn't coincide to work with Pink Floyd.
It is the magic that happens when more than a sole musical "identity" and talent collide in certain moments in time to bring us the masterpieces we grew to love, study and eventually stand in awe in front of those people's accomplishments.
Lastly, the sound is better now because of evolution: High tech gear been made available to the masses for cheap and high level of available educational information handed for free or very little since the first Internet days.
Still, deep down, nothing has or will ever change. Good music will always supersede bountries of nations, language and traditions etc.
An inspired song sang from the heart will always captivate the audience, be it 1950 or 2050. If engineers were the honorees of our times there would be no space for any "fragile fatty Adele" singing typical pop rock lovesongs we all heard before. But hey, oxymoron or not, this is what stands out from the crowd. And the production and engineering behind it, will never matter but to a handful of geeks much like you and me. I 've made peace with this decades ago hehe. So, artistic visibility, you probably meant artistic awareness but it's fine, is part of the educational process people undergo early on in their lives but is also an individual quality people may pick later on in their lives. It is our job and most sacred calling, as musicians-producers-engineers whatever, no matter how differently we think, to spread the word and insist to educate everywhere we find there is cultural poverty.
Thanks for listening,
Cheers

 

Last edited: Feb 24, 2021

As mentioned by @No Avenger there are three dimensions. To make it easier to understand, let us call them height, width, and depth

The height

The mix's amplitude/frequency response. Is your track well balanced across the frequency spectrum?

The width

The mix's panning/stereo field. Are elements panned hard left and right to make them wider or are they panned in and appear narrower?

The depth

The mix's depth. Do elements appear upfront or does it feel like they are several feet back beyond the speakers? (Depth is trickier to achieve than the other two)


https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/an-introduction-to-3d-mixing--audio-4889
https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/3d-mixing-part-2-panorama--audio-5069
https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/3d-mixing-part-3-equalization--audio-5370
https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/3d-mixing-part-4-compression--audio-5904
https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/3d-mixing-part-5-creative-routing--audio-8912
https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/3d-mixing-part-6-depth--audio-12865
https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorial...stering-the-final-chapter-part-1--audio-13871
https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorial...stering-the-final-chapter-part-2--audio-14174

 

I do think so, too. Indeed, the first thing I did was look at the year in which the song was made. As I already mentioned, there are mixing trends and the producer/engineer in this cover forgot all about that in their quest for that "80s/90s" sound. As you noted, the lack of very low frequencies was very common in those days. Prime examples are "Behind the Wheel" by Depeche Mode and "Bizarre Love Triangle" by New Order. If we were back in the 80s, I would not be so critical of the mix. Listening to it in 2021, I can't help but disagree with the direction the engineer/producer took.

Edit: Some examples of those anemic mixes

 

Last edited: Feb 24, 2021

appreciate the great replys

 

First single by Depeche Mode was "Dreaming of Me" for which I still have an extremely rare white label/one sided 12 inch promo. There was never a 12 inch single release, and this song never was not release as a single in the U. S. until 1991. Indeed, it is said that less than a dozen of these 12 inch WLP are still in existence.

 

Really good.. beautiful mixx... that kick is killer

 

You are right, i stand corrected. I should refer to it as "early" instead of "first". Dammit my memory isn't what it was, this was a minor hit too. I'm not an authority in DM discography anyway, although i admittedly like 'em a lot. I have this friend, great guy actually, he used to ran the Greek DM fan club for many years, he's an avid DM record collector and -from what i recall- he was acquainted with the band, he used to fly Japan to see them live... I think once Gahan (or was it Gore?) told him he has more DM records than he ever did lol. My friend must have over a 1000 DM records, i haven't talked to him for a long time, time to see how he's doing and ask him about this particular one.
Thanks for setting the record straight hehe, pun intented
Laters my friend.
PS: Bizzare Love Triangle? I can see what you 're saying about the mix but i -sort of- beg to differ. After all you are criticizing it retrospectively if i may say so, but of course you mentioned that. What you call "anemic" is part of its charm and reflects exactly the distinctively unique style of the band which is the very same style that made them more iconic to electronic & alternative dance music than most white bands ever. Btw, i find the balance and "tonality" of the individual tracks of the original mix almost perfect tbh. Some stuff like the snare for instance, i never liked not even in the 80s, but that was then and the 80s are plagued with the very same snares anyway hehe. This is one of the best 80's tracks bro (for me). Great songwriting as proven by the ton of covers it has undergone. The Shep Pettibone 12" remix was essential for most djs as well. Love that shit.
My fav cover is Frente's because of the totally different approach that demonstrates how great songs can be excellent as much with a full band as well with just one guitar :

 

Last edited: Mar 2, 2021

Monster dance hit. One of the songs that as a DJ you played if you wanted to fill up the dance floor. Frente's cover is great. I do remember that in late 70's and 80s every major club had lo frequency enhancers, I cant remember what they were called and the maker. Another thing that we have not mention is that the lack of low frequency information, generally in albums, was more a matter of necessity than engineers' fault. Indeed, it had nothing to do with the NS 10's, as some people erroneously claim. It was necessary in order to fit more songs in a vinyl album.

 

Last edited: Mar 2, 2021

Can't say i witnessed first hand much of the 70s gear being used as i was only growing up back then, it wasn't until '78-'79 that i had just started going to discos, always with my older cousins and friends so i was allowed to enter hahaha.
But when i was djing in Santorini in the 80s, i used a DBX 100 sub harmonic synthesizer and an Aphex Aural Exciter. Those days were epic lol.
The blend of these two -kinda legendary- machines on a primitive daisy chain on my Numark mixer's output, became a mainstay of mine for many years to come. I added a Urei 1176 limiter to my rig in 1990, picked up straight from my first -sort of- professional project studio at the time. I 'd give anything to re-live those times. Oh wth, every era has its merits i guess...

Absolutely correct. If you wanted a better bass response you had to opt for a double album and it would only be appreciatted by audiophiles and djs anyway. All else would criticize negatively spreading songs that could fit in a single album in two records, thus raising the cost for consumers and production/mastering/pressing cost for the label. And of course if you had to have the best bass response in vinyl you 'd have to release numerous 12"s hahaha.
As far as the NS10s are concerned though, i must admit i hated mine for many years in a row, whereas i loved my Urei 813 mains and i totally regret the day i sold them. I haven't been able to neither afford nor achieve such humongous bass impact to my stomach ever again, not even with my 3 way Focal twins and sub. Sigh... Np, some things are meant to be surpassed. I just wish i can be able to afford such a huge system sometime again in this life.
All the best

 

What a great thread this has become! Thank you all.

This! ^