hahaha I read the section rules it said to!

@Lenny Belardo II I tried using randy newman for reference tracks, I kid you not

 

EDIT: i shall never comment before reading the previous comments again bc my whole critique is that of a parrot... which is exactly what i was trying to avoid. o well.. EDIT END

first off, sorry if im saying anything thats already been pointed out (im sure i am) but im telling you what i think before reading anyone else's critiques so that im not biased or hearing anything bc of the power of suggestion from other comments.

catchy tune and everything is heard clearly but it could use a bit of color and dimension (magic?). which i know is a bullshit critique bc where does one just find magic? but a suggestion may be to use some analog modeled "coloring" eq's or compressors or maybe a high quality tape emulator.

some don't like it but i do like the slate vtm on just about anything that is actual instrumentation ie: gtrs,keys. and even on my master buss on some songs that aren't very track heavy (a shitload of tracks competing for space in the mix). this song would be a great candidate for trying it out. just leave the dials linked and drive the input dial to get the needle hanging around 1 on the vu meter and then play with the switches a bit until you get a sound you like. for me, it really does a great job of adding the slightest sheen of... sparkle? shit, idk what its doing really but it is pretty much the only slate plug i still use often.

dial back your bass a moderate bit. idk if you need to just hp it a bit more or just bring it down a few db or both.. but it is a bit obtrusive. most likely just a force of habit from doing mostly hip hop productions like you mentioned, and needing to really feel the low end thump.

figure out which between the keys or gtr are a hair out of tune and re-track. its probably just a semitone off, unfortunately its just enough off to distract and pull you out of the vibe. i cant put my finger on exactly which it is but between the 2 of them there is definitely something wonky there.

but dude, these are all pretty easily fixed. its a cool track and doesn't need much. i really like that you didn't try too go overboard and do to much with fx and needless production-y stuff. everything thats there has a purpose and serves the song and plays up the star of the track, which are the vocals.

well done man

 

Last edited: Jan 28, 2021

What @tr3v0r94 is that, at least in the USA, after March 1, 1989 adding the symbol is no longer necessary to receive protection. Indeed, you don’t even need to take any other through the official registration process;if you don’t want to. As soon as you create your work it enjoys full protection.

 

@tylerv dude thank you! This is probably my 10th mix on the track I tried using some of the new toys - sugar, soothe, softube, kush, to try and add "sparkle" but the balancing act can get a little tough. Definitely gonna take a look at the tuning too, but seriously thank you for the kind words and encouragement! You guys giving these kind of critiques makes me feel im at least in the ballpark

@The Pirate hahah yeah soundcloud does all that now too! Im the only n00b who read the section rules

Rule 5: You will also need to add this in the rules: When posting a W.I.P topic use the following codes at the beginning.
(C) for conventional:
(MRP) for Metal/Rock:
(DOE) for Dance Orientated Electronica:
(NDE) for Non-Dance Orientated Electronica.

 

Not surprising!

 

for sure man! honestly, i actually got a much needed confidence boost in a roundabout way from your thread. after going back and reading the earlier comments i was really glad to see that what i was hearing was pretty in line with what others were hearing as well. im not a veteran in this game at all, so i was at least reassured to see some of the guys on here that REALLY know what the F they're talking ab saying similar things. so cheers for that.

i totally get what you mean ab the balancing act after multiple sessions trying to re-mix to "fix" a song. ears get confused af and objectivity goes straight out the window before long. especially when you're new-ish to mixing or mixing a new genre.

trusting your ear is soo f#$king difficult for awhile into it. at least it has been for me. you're already questioning everything you're doing bc you become 'o so aware of the oceans that you don't know very quickly when getting into mixing/recording..

anyway, shit, if this is your 10th mix on this track then i'm even more impressed ... bc i sure remember some of the frankenstien'esque disjointed monsters of tracks that i RUINED bc i returned to it too many times trying to fix them rather than just trusting my gut and ears early. almost always just ended up doing way too much. or as @The Pirate would say, "overcooking it"...

shit, ive pulled some out of the oven in flames

 

Like a few others have said, this is not my kind of music, but it's good music, so it doesn't matter if I like it or not. But what you need is a producer. An old fashioned Glynn Johns, Chris Thomas style producer who can come in with fresh ears and sort it out, tidy it up, say get rid of that, add this and make a "whole song" from what you have. It's like Lego. A few pieces are missing and it needs a few added.

 

Agreed @Lenny Belardo II, but I think the member in the op was probably restricted by the artist who wrote, sang and played on the track.
And really, imo that producer skill you mention should have been up to the member to try and enforce in some way.
And the member said it wasn't his usual genre, so I guess that wasn't possible to accomplish!

I love the fact you just said one of the most important things, in my eyes.
It's that we can appreciate a piece even though we may not like the genre or type of track.
THIS is of the ears of the real producer ilk...

 

The term Producer has lost its meaning today. To me it will always be the audio equivalent of a film director. Audio production requires us to be completely inert when assessing a song. We should not judge it's style, but strive to find the qualities that will make it the finest version it can be.
I can sympathise with the dilemma faced by the OP, but new and unfamiliar styles are to be cherished because if you can succeed in pulling these new musical frameworks together, they will stay with you for life. And in time you will be a "Producer"

 

Agreed @ Smoove Grooves.
The singer/songwriter on that track has a good voice and has created a nice song but if neither the singer or the producer can play a guitar consistently in the key of the track (where the guitar is supposed to be the main instrument) then it's difficult to see how the producer can rescue it by themselves however good their knowledge is of compressors and saturators.

I can't play the guitar either so generating chord midi parts from Scalar 2 as input into Strum or RealGuitar would get the track back in key but it would then sound exactly like it is. A computer triggering repetitive strumming samples (but in the right scale).

EDIT: Then again, I've only ever dabbled with melodyne 5. Maybe that's the way to go?

 

Last edited: Jan 29, 2021

And the piano sound is nice, but as a pianist myself it just sounds lifeless as if it hasn't been played with any feeling. I.E. probably drawn in.
But I think I read that the artist played the instruments and sang, so...
So really we have a performing artist and a recording engineer.
We now need a mix engineer and/or a producer.

Interesting you mention Scalar. Just saw someone Futurewine in Chat freaking out about a Reaper chord generator tool.
These things are probably great for keys based instruments, but I would like to know how they choose fret position and guitar chord inversions.
As far as I know, they can't. You have to know enough about the guitar to create real guitar chords.

 

Last edited: Jan 29, 2021

You're right. The chord generators can suggest alternate variations of individual chords and inversions and vary the velocity to make it sound more "human" but that's their limit.
The guitar vsts do allow you to change fret positions etc but you almost certainly need to be a guitarist to understand when and how to tweak those settings.

 

With Ample Sound and Orange Tree Samples and Prominy and in fact all of them, it gets "tweaked" by me on almost every chord or note!
Forcing the string selection on bass is most important for realness, as is fret positioning on guitar chords.
Obviously after using that Reaper script or Scalar one would still have to do all this within the VST as you said.

Basically, the track in the op is a demo. And still good enough to show potential with those of us who can see the bigger picture.
If the artist the op is working with is trying to get a deal then this standard of demo is fine, and in fact may draw somebody due to what it lacks, because they can see what it could be...

 

@Smoove Grooves @Stuck In The 80s
The singer and I recognized a little tuning here and there, but with the jangly guitar and straight keys we thought it stayed in (or around) the pocket enough. I definitely recognize the imperfections mentioned here, my problem is taking what I hear needs to be improved - then being able to dial in the right knobs. I was always a drummer first, then songwriter / half assed keyboard + guitar player. Past couple years I've been learning to write, perform, and produce, while trying to be acceptable in "mixing and mastering". I programmed the drums and the singer and I worked together on the keys, they were "played" along with the song but were added after as you guys guessed. I understand the roles you say the producer is supposed to play, I try to encourage whatever artist im working with to do their thing while trying to guide into what I think is in the right direction for the song. Seems everything is a balancing act! i'm trying to learn in all directions while having fun with a buddy making music! I'm sure we could get the guitar playing perfect, but as grooves said having a listenable demo was #1 so hopefully it only improves from here!

 

nice .. reminds me of Nilsson Schmilsson, you might add some orchestral parts to it.

 

@tr3v0r94 I think you're doing well anyway.
As papa Lenny said, this is good music. Real music.
And I think that's why we can all be so critical because we know how good it could sound!
Well done for letting us have a listen.
I'm a keyboard player having had to get a few genres worth of chops under my belt, and I listen to a lot of 70s Fusion and Funk...and I love Dub and Neo-Soul.
SO the bassline for me was quite an enjoyment! Although maybe slightly overbearing. But I'm hearing where you're going with it.
Well done.
Hey, the idea of strings suddenly got me excited...!

Oh I've just remembered my one gripe: the vocal delay. Seems too blatant, needs verb as well. Maybe ducking when vocal is in.
I think the choice of delay timing needs to be quicker or slower.
Something too obvious rhythmically seems to detract from the song and doesn't seem natural enough to me. As if it isn't all 'smoke and mirrors' anyway! haha

 

Last edited: Jan 29, 2021

The odd thing is... when I play it again... the tuning issues are less obvious to me. Familiarity can be forgiving I guess.

But it's still the song with the most potential that I've heard posted on here by a country mile.

 

Nice Song @tr3v0r94 good job, ( i believe this is my first post on this forum i usually don't but i thought this might help some, not that i am a big time producer, there are a lot of talented people here but i just thought sharing my opinion might help)
Anyway to answer ur question You definitely are heading towards the right direction, But i dont think if u have done this song justice, u are half way there, u can do lot more with wat u have now.
Let me share my thoughts, on the song ( or wat i've would have done).

First like many have pointed out "Too much Bass", u have mentioned Trap, but this ain't one, the material u have is acoustic and it begs to be heard out. Try to lowering the bass down a litte bit and also the compression, as its a bass guitar try to aim to bring out those artifacts of the bass guitar rather than making it sound like moog fret less bass, in your song the bass should accompany other elements, sweeten it so that other elements can also be heard. Try to hide the bass beneath other stuff( if u get wat im saying) as it does not contain funky slapping plucking stuff going on, i belive it fine to do this. An example for this is Hozier's song From Eden

Have a listen to the song, hear where the bass sits in the song. (Btw the guitar slide on urs pointed me towards this song)

2. Fade in: I dont think this song needs a fade in as you have acoustic guitar use it as an intro. Talking of A.guitar

3.Layer the guitar pan it use channel delay or some stuff but pan it so the center has more space for bass and vocal, if u have left and right guitar recorded perfect or u can simulate it with what you have Here are example take it as a starting point, and chose wat fits for ur song listen to left right guitar i can point out other genres but here in this u can hear clearly

4. As i dont work much with vocals, not much thoughts on that but make the vocal a bit more centered, duplicate the vocal track to stereo track chop it use reverb delay where u want, instead of adding reverb to the vocal just add where u need that way it makes the track not too muddy.
again as you mentioned trap this tut might interest u

and also consider these too

5.Piano is conflicting with guitar one instrument has to be made dominant, or make them talk to each other. Cauz up untill 2:04 piano has been panned to left and after that it changes and reappers again on left. instead of panning use Haas effect or use layers like left right piano or some thing that way you don't loose width.

Here comes the arrangement
6. Keep in mind of your arrangement ABBA AABA or whatever... stick with it act upon it..
like here in 0:57 after the part i belive is bridge "searching for answers" make some space(like a bar) for drum fill or some thing before chorus i think "Pursuit of something" that way u ll feed the concept of tension and release.
And also at 1:08 use the same before u take it to the next verse which is "Look inside...."
Make the Drum more pronounced From 1:50 - 1:52

7. From 1:52 you can do a lot more creative stuff than u imagine, for instance loose the piano part at 2:12 - 2:19 where it goes "plah plah plah plah plah" that part looses the tension that the song is building up, use another variation if u have like an accompaniment of some sort use it whereever these plah plah comes along, as this is the critical part of song so dont repeat that part again and again, thats what keeps the listener guessing/hooked for the next part which is obviously the release.

8. At 3:00 or 3:01 leave a bar 1/2 complete silence for 1/2 a bar for a drum fill (my opinion use some toms).
9.the outro really liked the part from 3:01, now repeat that twice ( 3:01 to 3:08 ) the vocal repeats twice makes more sense
10. end

These are just a few of my thoughts i could go on more, but..
keep in mind when using panning always ALWAYS CHECK IN MONO, check what kind of panning u want stereo balance, mono pan, stereo pan...
Remember who u are making music for, not everyone listening is a producer or musician, there are normal people too, who might as well be having a shitty day too. Imagine that u are that person and listen what u made.
As a producer its most important for u to decide what ur listener should be hearing to in ur music, follow ur instints and it will take u in the right path.
Also watching tut videos and reading helps..

Hope these few tips helps

Dude..

 

this comment in combination with @The Pirates poll kindof got me thinking..

i think that the role of the "producer", as most see it now, has changed largely due to community's like this one (audiosex and the like). which are made up largely by home studio types or "bedroom producers".

we thankfully have such access to computers and software that make it so easy to make music these days that a very large number of us on here are probably musicians first, who wanted to start recording OUR OWN stuff. at least that's true for me and from what ive gathered over my time so far on the forum is true for many others too.

someone made a comment on the poll's thread like "how are there so many producers? eyeroll..". (not exact words bc im not trying to start a ruckus) but that was kindof the general intent. i totally understand what the view is there. i recorded a few full lengths years ago in real studios with real producers. that is a very difficult job and is worthy of the status that the guys that have been around the industry for decades (myself included) give it. i personally couldn't bring myself to click "producer" on the poll. but i think i know why so many did...

going back to what i said ab so many of us getting into the recording/mixing side of things to record our own projects, aren't we kind of our own producers too? i feel like that may be why the role of the producer has become so easily tossed about in recent years. bc so many who are newer to all of this just look at it like "im recording, composing, mixing, all of my stuff myself, i'm a producer". which in a way is kindof like "yea, fairplay" but also at the same time some of my older ideals just want to rage shout "O you're a producer 'ey? well shit, i didn't know i was talking to BUTCH VIG... would you like me to fix you a cup 'o tea mr. PHIL SPECTOR?!"

idk.. just got me thinking.

i hope this was on topic enough. if not i can certainly delete and post it on the poll thread instead..

 

Everything you said is valid. It is however applicable in a contemporaneous sense. Today, a producer is as you defined. An individual who can operate a DAW, play keys or pads in a rudimentary fashion and then apply his or her the skills to create a piece of music that has qualities that decades ago would have been impossible.
However, what I perceive as the missing piece in today's definition of producer is a lack of exposure to styles of music that fall outside your own preferred style of "production"
I am not saying one or the other is better, they are different.
My role as producer started in the early 1980's and I programmed Linn Drums and used all analog synths. My first album with my band is very much of its time. It is now very dated. I was a narrowly focused producer. But I did learn one thing from the experience. That I wasn't a keyboard player. I was a producer. I was good at telling other musicians what to do.
I built my first studio and as an engineer I quickly found that I could absorb the styles of every band or solo artist who came in the door. I learnt about jazz, metal, gospel, I even recorded a live 9 piece horn section with piezo microphones taped to the floor to capture flamenco dancers. To me, this is what a producer does. He adapts. He is fluid. He absorbs the music of whoever he is recording.
I don't denigrate the definition of today's producers. I simply say that producers of the past had a very different role. My experience as such still influences my own music in surprising ways. I may be composing a simple piano and vocal piece and I will envisage something I did for a film score and an orchestrated piece will be added. I will surprise myself because the past continues to inform the present.