Hello all,

First i think this is the best forum to post this ... if it is not, moderator please, move it to the right place.

Having said this ... Yesterday someone posted this on AudioZ about some r&b sample library:

I've never used samples myself, except for some drum loops i've used as a base rhythm to to improvise on it. But anyways, i've been always curious
about the same things that the above Audioz user raised in his/her post. So, any explanation about your own creative use of samples in your productions
will be welcome to know how a sample lib like the one mentioned above can be used in a production without "putting a ready made song on your DAW and
pretending you made it" ... which IMHO would be too much simple use of samples.

Thanks a lot for helping to understand an absolute newbie in this field

 

About :

I don't know if this User will visit our 'beloved' Forum, then maybe not even see some answers, conclusions, comments, suggestions,... of this Forum's members about his words, nevertheless here you have my opinion about the fact to use 'WAV' (Samples) files...

Most of the 'WAV' (Samples) files nowadays (particularly 'ACIDized' or 'Apple Loops') can be lengthen, shorten, pitched up/down,... without any 'horrible' artifacts heard after these processings.
This already gives you the advantage of changing the 'Main Root' or 'Tonality' of a particular 'WAV' file 'in a breeze', not to also mention the Great possibility to speed up/down to either fast or slow Tempos (particularly useful for 'Drum Loops', 'Beat Loops', 'Grooves Loops',... ) some of these 'WAV' (Samples) Loops.

Moreover, plenty of these Sample Libraries often also include 'One Shots', that can be used as single Instruments, Drum Hits,... , and that you can combine/mix with many other 'One Shots', either to create your own 'original' Drum Kits, Drum Loops, Beat Loops,... not to mention the 'One Shots' of Instruments solely ('Basses', 'Synths', 'Leads', 'Keys', 'Guitars',... ) that you can use, process (FXs), and transform (Granular Synthesis, Mangle, Resynthesize,... ), the way you like (or need !) within the 'plethora' of Sampler Engines and Effect Plugins at our disposal nowadays. You can also take several of these 'One Shots' (which often are 'rooted' to a particular Key Note, e.g. 'C3') and layer them to create either some kind of 'Fat' Synth sounds, or some specific 'Textures' in case of Atmospheric/Pad 'One Shots',...

As you can see, the possibilities are almost endless... it's simply a matter of personal creativity, your tastes, and your main goals/objectives within your Productions. *yes*

 

I think that also depends on production mentality, ie where in the world you are. Say I know in LA,not sure about the rest of america, most of the time you have to be making a song in a day. Thats how the market overthere works. If you get an order to do something for someone thats usually the time frame you are given. I remember watching an ableton tutorial by some guy caLlled lil tim, lil jim or something a couple of years ago. The track he was making for the demonstration was something I would be ashamed to put my name on. And all the while he was acting like its some rnb starlets next big hit. A friend of mine went to LA a couple of years ago and he testified to the point I just made. Thats how it works, you have to use loops, synth presets, because you wont have time to do it yourself in a day.
Of course, when you dont have an engagement like little jim, you have to make your unique sounds, beats, and I will add grooves( I m not using preset grooves either, I strongly believe that this is also killing the advance of music, but thats another question).
Of course, Im not saying that you cant use premade loops creatively. There are loads of ways to do this and I respect some of the results that can come this way. I personaly dont do it. I d rather make my own loop and then manipulate it in the same way. But thats just me, both approaches are valid.
But when it comes to just making a jigsaw from premade loops, that is just crap

 

it can be a source of inspiration, it can be slice and reorder in a totally different way... it can be layered or/and effected and became completely new things
You use parts only, regroove with enveloppes... use as materials in granular sampler or granular synths... it can be vocoded to create something like texture, vocoded beats
it can be materials for new synthesis teritory with effects like frequency shifting or FM, Spectral... cf: IRIS from izotope etc... it can be convert as midi or groove to just use it as a feeling with your sounds etc...

Honnestly all can be nice it's just a matter of inspiration, creativity, experiment, good knoledge of the music genre etc...

Possibility are endless ... That's a lot of people who use it not as a final song as people use texture in 3D use it as a microscopic fragment of a Pixar Film ;) ....

 

There's a good topic here called Is Using Loops Wrong? where some people gave great answers to this question that was raised. I'd also like to point out the hypocrisy of the user's comment in which he's fine with "jacking melodies" but somehow using loops is where he draws the line. That doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

Nice to see you around again fraggle83, thought you disappeared on us again.

 

Yeah this was talked about before ALOT...to make it short, I think loops are great, especially for getting the creative juices playing...not only that..but with the awesome things you do inside DAWs these days you can take a loop sample and transform it into something it was never even meant to be. You can even extract grooves from these things, convert them to midi and then use your own one shot samples, i mean that's insane power and flexibility right there. Now I can understand people that say that making an entire song out of loops is wrong, and I would kind of agree, but hey, if you can get them to sound good together, then at least that's production practice, it's a good way to sharpen your skills and see how things work when it comes to "producing" EDM...sometimes I take loops, transpose them and turn them into completely different melodies, alot of times I even end up scrapping the original loop all together because I come up with something even better unexpectedly...so yeah, it's all about creativity and I say if there are things that can help us out with that, then might as well use them.

 

Personally, I don't use loops. Although I LOVE one-shot/single-hit samples (not just drum samples, all kinds of stuff). Pulled up in poise (my current favorite drum plugin), one shots sound good, and have an awesome workflow. Making the groove of the drums (for me) is half the fun, and using a loop just wouldn't have the same feel--but that is just a personal thing. I used to play with a lot of drum machines in years past, so I love that aspect of production. I generally work on grooves starting with the drums and so, I like to build them from scratch in this way--as I generally try to track quickly and get ideas down while I am still "in the right mood" for composition (vs mixing/mastering).

I don't think that using loops is wrong as long as you make them your own. But using them "as is" although not wrong per-se, I think is limiting to the producer using them. They'll be forced to "fall in" to what that particular groove is doing. Like wildwilliams was saying, they can be a source of inspiration--especially when chopped/sequenced/reordered/mangled in a different way. For that end, they are cool.

I also don't use them because they take up so much hdd space. I can pack a lot of single-hit samples in the space of a few loop libraries. Not that storage is a huge issue or anything, but it is an advantage (albeit a small one).

 

when i Use a Loop Kit i don't use the Loops as they are i Chop them up and use parts of them or maybe i would just use one loop with a Sound/Melody for a starting point and then use Drum kits and VST Instruments and build around that one Melody that is still producing even if you here a Melody from a sound Library and then use that Melody But'' Play it your self Buy Ear That is still producing a song

 

- to extract that one snippet which is on the right place with the right sound (mostly processed/synthetic percussion loops)
- to have some organic elements that I would never get that way via MIDI (shakers/tambourines, guitars, horns, ethnic stuff etc.)
- to have some nice rhythmical triggers for sidechain gate and compressor or vocoder (Razor is always inspiring)
- to have some nice source material for Ableton Live's Convert to MIDI function
- to have fun while de- and reconstructing

- creative use of pitch artifacts
- (granular) (re)(synthesis)
- trying out any parameter of the audio track and effects / turning any knob / waiting for happy accidents / resampling
- minimizing the gap between "conventions" (limitations/blockades) and technical possibilities

 

My usage is also 'waiting for happy accidents / resampling' (thanks rimshooter), and I also don´t use pre-made melodic stuff or construction kits, but at the end all depends in your approach. I like the obsesive note-by-note writing process, that´s where the fun happens for me.

Using a loop this days will not make you a better or worst musician, maybe it´s relative. Maybe choosing a great 'palette' (one shots/loops) is what makes some producers great, with or without after processing, just by finding and deciding what the on going song 'needs'. Maybe you just need some background beat for your acoustic-folk song and you don´t need something more unique/special in your track than your guitar and your voice.. so a standard loop fits well and you avoid wasting time slicing/re-arranging stuff just to say you did it. Also, just by layering a bunch of loops you will not become a unique artist, your music will sound generic as the elements provided (you will find that most collections were made following some general genre/aesthetic standards, so keys, tempo or 'color' fits better for everyone diging into it). So, depending on your needs and what you think should be personal and special in your song will guide you in this field, that´s the key for me.

Something extra to add: sometimes a dedicated genre collection seems to be the easy way, but don´t forget to try recording your own stuff or finding inspiring samples in unusual places like movies, foley libraries or anywhere. There are plenty of usable noises out there. A nice artist I like made a beat with some raw recorded knocks in his desk and music magic happened anyway.

 

I think one of the many unspoken facts about music production is that nothing is off limits. In that sense the production world is like the old wild west...................... anything can AND anything will go. How that applies to the subject here is rather obvious, you can use whatever you want to make music.

Theres a catch though, in order to pull it off correctly you have to have a decent level of imagination and creativity in your mind, body and soul. By "correctly" I mean completely making whatever you chose to sample completely genuine and true to your style and taste. You know how I know its possible to do such a preposterous thing? Because it happens all the time in all levels of music production! That's what separates the noobs from the pro's and the pro's from the gods.

I also don't see how anyone can completely use any construction kit's sounds without altering the samples in one way or another. And that's due to 90 percent of them having a real cheesy sound them, especially the urban ones. Some of them are so cheesy that they drain your inspiration right when you hear what they contain, in my opinion. *yes*

I also agree with Catalyst. That dude's response to not understanding why and how people can use loops, falls apart when he admits to being cool with using construction kit midi melodies. GTFO of here with that shite LOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOL

 

I pretty much agree with Army on this one and I must be honest I don't use them and I never listen to them for inspiration regarding my music production. Probably people can get the job done easily using them but I do prefer creating my own unique sound starting from my drum samples and working on them. That's it, as I said somewhere else this is the way I conceive my work.
Probably using them in R'n'B, funk or similar is not a crime, in OST it is.

 

Never say never in Music "Industry"

and it's just an example among so many, on directly ripped songs from sample libraries.
However i agrees with most of what is said here.

 

OK, but that's part of the world doesn't exist for me, that is play to nintendo and not making music.
Simply ignore all that ! There's a world also behind the matrix, there's musicians also behind DAW rather behind that TETRIS, there's band also in a lot of concert hall ! There's Gilles Petterson also you can listen against peak FM Station ;) Seriously

NB: and there's a lot of guys to give advise or tutorial about the compressors and sidechain ... but for sure they don't listening what them do because all is squashed and it just ridiculous to have ears to do something like that ;) Go to compress the Ravel Bolero in the wrong way and killed all the crescendo things and you never feel the song

 

Not everyone who starts producing music is a trained musician or musical genius. It's important to realize this and to understand we all learn our own way an we learn at different speeds. It's important to have fun an be creative and keeping trying new methods of layering, pitching, sampling, recording, effecting, processing. Until you finally create something that's unique, that you can call your own. After time goes by, some of us will an some will not use loop libs.. However, will just create their own sample banks/packs. Just try to have fun and enjoy it and remember practice makes perfect. Take a simple music class if you want to learn, or read and watch tutorials.

 

using pre-made loops is gay...what's the fun in that? The only reason I ever use a loop is so I can shove it in my granular synthesizer and fuck it up...otherwise, just create and process your own shit...booooriiiing and too easy...

the best way to get creative juices flowing is to actually jam out with a drum sampler like Battery 4 or something and experiment with the time siganture you choose to use. If you're using 4/4 time signature, play around the 4/4 realm and create and process loops, put your kicks under triplets, add 2 on 3 and 3 on 5 polyrhtyhms, add some humanization to your claps, add some swing to the hats, detune every second or fourth percussion bridge...fucking do something in your life that's actually worth talking about.

All those sample libraries need to go to hell. That being said, we have an awesome sample library thread that I started so everyone can chuck in samples that might inspire others...

Troll so hard swag swag swag swag swag

 

I sidechain gate drumloops a lot and use percussion loops and/or one shots. It al depends on the situation or what I'm after for. If I can make it work it's al good. Don't like it when it's to recognizable so I edit and chop and mix and end up with the stuff I like from several loops and one shots. I think it's way more important to have the right groove and a punchy mix than where the sounds come from. You will never recognize a loop in my final mix downs. Unless it's a synth/musical loop, witch therefore never works for me. A lot of EDM radio hits are based on a premade melody or synth/bass loop. You start to recognize a lot when you know all the packs out there.

' a loop is like the paint on a canvas. you are the brush. '

To those who use premade and full musical, readymixed loops :

 

How do you use sample libs in your productions ?
>>>> it's not is it Good ? or is it Wrong ? isn't it ?

Also there's not only Loop in sample libs ;)