its in key of F
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/guns-n-roses/november-rain-chords-177850
but the G major chord is played
like at "Cause nothin' lasts forever"
and its "And it's hard to hold a candle"
i assume G major chord is out of key?
can you explain further?
thanks


as F major key has

F major, G minor, A minor, A# Major C Major and D minor chords

 

It pretty basic Your absolutely right that the Key of "F" does not have a "G" Major chord.
The key is modulating from "F" to "C"

the most common way yo modulate from one Key to another is to use a ii-V-I chord progression.
hence.. Dm-G-C.

So the writer of this song chose to use the Dmin chord as the start of the modulation point.
The trick is get back to the original key.
this can be accomplished by finding a common chord of Both "Keys" F & C
Since "C" is the Five of "F" it can a strong amount of pull back to the Key of "F"

Also... Google Secondary Dominants. That might help a little too.

I'd also argue that this song could really be in the key of "C" but the chord progression starts on the "F"
Both the Chorus and the Bridge are in the Key of "C".
Notice the "G" as the last Chord. It's function is as a Dominant "V" Chord.

One more thing.. The Bb chord never comes up in the chord progression. That's note really that important.. but unless we look at the melody to see if its in there then that's a problem. the "Bb" in the Key of "F" is the main way to identify if the melody is in the Key of "F".

I find after improvising guitar solos over the song. That C Major fits for all of it. but playing a Dmin Pent over the Verse (F Major) sounds bluesier.


Cheers.


.

 

Last edited: Nov 27, 2020

Hey @samsome. There's a pretty neat trick to understand in music theory. It's the circle of fifth (and fourth).
Seing that you wonder about the chords that might be out of the key the song is in, that means you might be familiar with the concept (Google it if you're not and you will understand how some keys are very close to each other. Literally just one sharp or flat away).

@oldskoolproductions is right about the cadence of ii V I, but this is mainly used in Jazz to modulate from one key to another and sometimes the hard way (like way further than one sharp on one flat from one another).

In the Pop / Rock context, just know that you can "borrow" a chord from one of the neighbor keys (for example Bb or C for F - look at the circle of fifth to understand). Doing that you will slightly modulate by adding a flat or a sharp that was not previously in the song, bringing attention from the listener - basically ear candy and other possibilities or tension / release (the secret sauce of music).
In the context of November Rain, The G chord adds a natural B note (major 3rd of the G chord instead of the Bb note that is present in the key of F) to the context bringing interest and since we modulated using the ii V I, we consider that we are now in the key of C major and that we've left F major.

@oldskoolproductions is right about the notion of the song being in the key of C. And I would state that it is considering the other parts of the song, it is.
My personal take on this is:

• The song is not in the key of F,
• The song is in the key of C,
• ... But we could argue that it starts modal (F Lydian) by focusing on the F (but we're not in Jazz here so no bother),
• In the end, the song modulates to C minor (relative Eb major) and that's a pretty neat trick.

They had fun composing this (I never checked that before).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

C.

To go further, Google:

• Circle of 5th (or 4th),
• Cadences in music (ii V I cadence in particular),
• Modulations of keys,
• Modes of the major keys,
• Borrowed chords.

 

@Cosval I like the way you think. I was arguing the "F" Lydian mode myself.. But I realized That since there is no stressing on the Bb note that the song must be in C Major.

Cheers,
OSP