Can you say something that no one could oppose it?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Krusk, Sep 15, 2020.

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  1. Legotron

    Legotron Audiosexual

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    I like myself
     
  2. Yuri

    Yuri Rock Star

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    Kittens are lovely.
     
  3. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    You must have never met someone who believes in Intelligent Design.

    ---------------------------------------

    As an aside and purely as an intellectual exercise now that philosophy has been brought into the discussion:

    The OPs particular posit isn't that original as it comes from the omni paradox as originally asked by Ibn Rushd Averroes an Aristotelian philosopher in the Caliphate of Cordoba as, 'Could God create a stone so heavy that even He could not lift it?'' To which his reduction was, 'God can always do as he wills because God is God and is unlike us which can only do what we can.'

    Averroes Omin paradox has older roots in Dionysius the Pseudo-Areopagite a Neoplatonic Christian philosopher theologian's posit of, 'can God deny the existence of himself." It was latter taken on by many other theologian philosophers with varying answers and the most recent contemporary answer by William Lane Graig is, 'it doesn't matter because we don't need to know in order to be good Christians.' So in the contemporary viewpoint on the Omni paradox mirrors that of the contemporary view on nihilism which is to label as dead-end logical stop that isn't worth any further exploration because there are no useful answers to be gleaned.

    At the crux of the paradox are two dichotomous extremes 1) a physical fact 2) believe (faith). The issue which the posit has always sought to explore for those who take more than a passing simple colloquial stab at solving what was never meant to be solved has been a mainstay of human conflict for our entire history, that of the observable vs that of the belief.

    Thorough reductions always seems to end up somewhat the same: there are facts (big rocks) but people regardless of facts will and can believe (faith) what they will. The pitfall always seems to be that upon first inspection the observer wants to assume that logic and fact are a necessity in the deductive reasoning of the reduction, but how can logic and fact be applied to something as far outside observation fact and logic as God or faith. The working solution labeled as the Chewing Gum Solution is that it isn't anathema to be able to believe two seemingly opposing positions as long as the subject can willingly accept the limitations of their knowledge versus that of the omniscient, they can maintain their acknowledgement of observational fact and plead their own ignorance as to why it doesn't seemingly agree with their faith therefor allowing them to be able to 'walk while chewing gum at the same time."

    Hence the paradox, when dealing with different beliefs there is no absolute that can not be challenged once the constraints of observable fact and logic are ignored.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  4. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    Please excuse me cherry picking just your last sentence (which I like a lot)

    'Social Facts' versus 'Brute Facts'

    Social Facts
    If I'm arguing with you, then maybe I just want to 'change your mind' (I say we should do this instead of doing that)
    In that case Ignoring the constraints of observable fact and logic might be to my advantage.

    Brute Facts
    If I'm arguing with nature then ignoring the constraints of observable fact and logic means I'm going to get my arse kicked.

    We should always pay attention to whether we are arguing about social facts or brute facts
    - or just make asses of ourselves :yes:

    Politicians and other idiots think the world is only about social facts. :dunno:
     
  5. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    Glad you agree with me.
     
  6. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    I oppose every post in this entire thread, including my own. They said that it couldn't be done, but there you go. God told me to do it.
     
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  7. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    Only if cooked properly, otherwise a bit stringy. :yes:

    No I did not. :guru:

    "What we experience and refer to as 'gravitational effects' are the result of mass distorting the spacetime that surrounds it"
    Go ahead - criticise that as an 'incomplete' description - but it is 'a' description.
    Go ahead - criticise that as an 'incomplete' explanation - but it is 'an' explanation.
    As just one sentence, it is obviously a trivial caricature of humanity's best (so far) description and explanation of gravity. Einstein's explanation is a superb model of reality - but always ready for upgrade (as is all authentic science).

    It would be childish to expect 'complete' descriptions or 'complete' explanations of anything at all.
    But of course children can be excused for thinking things are childishly easy.
     
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  8. pratyahara

    pratyahara Rock Star

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    Analogue is inscrutable by digital.
     
  9. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    Tesla said that Einstein's theory was trash.
     
  10. Klefths

    Klefths Ultrasonic

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    Why?
     
  11. DoubleTake

    DoubleTake Audiosexual

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    Yuri said:
    Kittens are lovely.

    i KNEW someone would inject string theory into this.
     
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  12. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    Whatever the (alleged) reason, (and Tesla was brilliant) the subsequent pseudo-debate is now just farcical,
    on the same level as "Stanley Kubrick provided the footage for the faked moon landing". The hysterical conspiracy theory style
    nonsense fully illustrates @JMOUTTON's comments about 'ignoring the constraints of observable fact and logic'.
    Eventually, a decent challenge that incrementally refines general relativity is inevitable - just not from Tesla's musings.
     
  13. Talmi

    Talmi Audiosexual

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    Foster will always come back.
     
  14. Klefths

    Klefths Ultrasonic

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    Thanks Ad Heesive, quite informative.
    Never the less, "Why?" is my contribution for the sentence nobody can oppose.
     
  15. Paul Pi

    Paul Pi Audiosexual

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    That's just Bollocks. :yes:

    EDIT: Added smiley, 'cos it occurs to me now my 'joke' might otherwise unintentially offend!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  16. Paul Pi

    Paul Pi Audiosexual

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    That's 'cos Einsein said Tesla was bipolar. * :drummer:

    * Tesla devised/invented AC/DC electrical power transmission, geddit? **
    ** All jokes become unfunny when deconstructed. ***
    *** Especially my 'jokes'. ****
    **** Damn.
     
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  17. Krusk

    Krusk Kapellmeister

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    Guys, let me simplify a bit my intention from creating this thread:

    Is it possible to be 100% sure that something is right?

    People are interested in theorizing and making rules. In most cases, previous theories are needed to build a new theory. When we are not sure that the previous theories are 100% correct, the next theories cannot be based on it. So,

    How to be 100% sure?
     
  18. pratyahara

    pratyahara Rock Star

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    Because if 'space' can shrink in presence of a body, it must jump back into its place when that body is gone. So space is elastic according to Einstein, although he claimed that space is just geometrical shape ('curvature'), and geometry does not possess elasticity or can detect bodies present...
    Tesla just laughed at Einstein's theory.
    Obviously, you can not oppose that his theory is a joke.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  19. pratyahara

    pratyahara Rock Star

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    Anyone can (and will) oppose that except the person speaking.
     
  20. pratyahara

    pratyahara Rock Star

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    As far as I can see, no one opposed this yet.
     
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