Love the idea
But How much would that be ?

 

looks like ROLI have financial problems, so PACE took advantage of it I guess....
https://www.musictech.net/news/industry/roli-pace-juce-acquisition/

 

Just saw this :
https://www.fathomsynth.com/support

Fathom Is Built On JUCE

I think under the hood of many synths is Juce a component

 

There are a lot of them. Synths and effects. Not to mention modular plugin hosters.

If the developer wants it can hide that (commercial ones). It's only logical for marketing, for medium-high sized plugin companies.

 

Or none of them. When Google bought Motorola, it was a move to gain their gigantic patent cases (more than 20,000) and learn how to manufacture phones in-house. Then they sold the brand and any remains of Motorola properties to another company 2-3 years later and got their money back. For Google it was an investment to compete against Apple and Samsung and maintain control instead of partnership with rivals. It was a Royal Flush level move.
I'm pretty sure this was a similar situation with ROLI. They didn't need the cash as they've had multiple rounds of successful funding and already incorporated FXpansion's technology in their in-house software.

 

Last edited: Apr 24, 2020

True. Almost half of developers in the market are using JUCE in some way. Even for porting to Android and iOS.
JUCE is a framework. In software development it's like a building skeleton so don't worry about anything shady happening to it.
Plus ROLI was more interested in JUCE senior programmer and inventor, whom they kept out of the deal. He's a mastermind.

 

And he is working on SOUL programing language.

 

JUCE 6 coming in June removes all analytics from all versions... yes, even the free version. However its license cost doubled for the pro tier. Also almost? full VST3 support for Linux. Good move. JUCE is like the Qt Lite w/ plugin support.

 

On the little press article he said he'd stay on ROLI working on that giant SOUL project but still advising the JUCE staff.
Very ambitious, it's like an OpenGL for audio (there's an OpenAL but almost nobody uses it). But if someone can pull that off is Jules Storer.

So true... good news the removal of analytics, so maybe I take back is bad news for a beginner/hobbyist like me and are actually good. I wonder if they'll add (optional) module for PACE protection. Though it must be complex.
But the compilation times make me cry as you well know... though not JUCE's fault.

 

Last edited: Apr 24, 2020

I love how techie this community can get in some topics.
That SOUL thing is the absolute future. Wow!

 

I suspect WebAssembly. Its heavily used for such purposes and gives native speed on browser

 

@demberto Nope. Assembly is a any low level language with instructions close to machine language.
WebAssembly is derivative name. It actually works like an interpreter for JavaScript to achieve near native performance.

But browsers will never reach native performance and stability. It’s an unspoken truth that took 10 years for people to realize native computing isn’t going anywhere soon. In fact it’s stronger than ever or all of us were sitting in front of our Chromebooks right now.
A lot of HTML5 innovators and startups went out of business and some of them took a hybrid approach or changed their business model entirely.

I think he was right. This is more like OpenGL.
We had cross platform audio frameworks before but no one has ever attempted to unify a solution like that. There’s no foundation or association in pro audio industry to standardize (and support) something like how they maintain OpenGL.

 

@Amirious I agree, the core of it (DSP) is all C++ and the GUI can be written in almost all modern languages. Plus its its readily integrated into JUCE as a module.

 

I watched quite in depth videos and presentations and it's really like a modern open-gl for audio.

What does that mean? With DirectX/OpenGL you program your 3D shaders, CPU send them and the GPU does the rest.
So, for audio, you could send your raw audio and an IR impulse response and the convolution would take place at the driver/hardware level.
Right now, on a DAW PC all the computing is done on the CPU. The sound cards DSP barely can do minimal game-oriented surround audio and stuff.

That means:
1. New language. SOUL is a fast real-time JIT language. But at the hardware level that should translate to full performance.
2. New drivers
3. New hardware with capable and SOUL-compatible sound DSP

So, as PC users, with next to nothing DSPs when it comes to DAW-like audio processing, it'll take very long before we have something solid.

On the other side, smartphones which have way more specialized chips including audio ones could benefit a lot only by changing drivers. All the fancy SOUL benchmarking demos are done in smartphones.

So that's why while I love the idea I also like that J.Storer separates his ambitious SOUL project work from the core JUCE team. Time will tell.

 

Last edited: Apr 25, 2020

This is something so important I'm quite shocked is so less known.
Like a good programming geek I also took a look at Webassembly and both the fast implementation (of the standard) and the good but not so native performances surprised me.
Finally I learnt that is in fact the same Javascript engine who executes the code. That makes a world of difference especially because the best language to use for Webassembly right now is C/C++. For starters, is overkill to use C++ and all his dark magic optimizations that have no use if you compile to webassembly but for sure makes the program bigger.

The fastest both in loading times and execution examples I've seen are made using C, even if technically are C++. C like C++, without even using the standard libraries.

 

Last edited: Apr 25, 2020

Also very true, but I'm boring even myself today with so many technical posts and not even one joke.
What's happening to me?!!

 

I like your insight. If this project really end up solving decades old problems, then our future tools are going to stand out of our way for good.

Coincidentally I was just reading an essay about how programmers are creating more problems rather than solving previous ones by sticking to development models that haven’t evolved since 80s and how they can get inspired by musicians to be creators who get the chance to realize their product as they’re working on it. And the proposed solution would be a real time interaction between the creator and the machine. A unified and open framework that generates code based of what you’re trying to achieve, rather than having a set of requirements and wondering how to achieve it.

Much like the contrast between analog console and digital mixer of a DAW. With former, you get to feel the changes, touch the parameters and experiment with possibilities instead of sitting there for hours, sculpting a perfect sound just by dialing in some numbers and hope it sounds like what’s in your head when you press play.

By unifying the approach and seeing the changes, they are going to spend their time on innovation and moving forward instead of maintaining 10 million lines of code and hope that a new change didn’t break 5 other things.

 

I’m sorry to hear about your frustrations but I think it’s time to turn on notifications for the humor sub-forum and only post in other sections if you finished reading yet another thread about Soothe.

 

Last edited: Apr 27, 2020

nooo, why?? I love ROLI...

edit: ok I finished reading through this thread and think I understand. Hopefully they are just pooping

 

Last edited: Apr 26, 2020

I want to use open al to enhance audio quality of my game. Is it safe?