How would you modify or pre mix this mic to sound more like a sony c800g?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Jake Jlinngall, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Jake Jlinngall

    Jake Jlinngall Kapellmeister

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    The sony c800g. I love the sound of this microphone. I have only rented it as I am saving up to own one.

    I currently own the JZ BH1 mic:

    I like the sound but I don't like the harsh 7-8 k the mic has and the low end is not as balanced as the reference mic (sony c800g) I am trying to get it to sound like. I also noticed that the sony c800g has this built in very transparent and light compression built in to it as you sing or rap. The BH2 does not have this and I have only heard this "compression" on high end mics. Even on a mildly expensive mic like a u87 I do not hear compression that is built into the mic that compresses the vox in such a light and transparent and natural way.

    Here is a frequency response graph of:

    the BH2.:

    [​IMG]

    The sony c800g:

    [​IMG]

    Both compared:
    [​IMG]

    Now I will link you sound files I got from audio test kitchen:

    rap live band/studio example:

    Full band playing mic'd with an sony c800g ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/bysdet6h2svq07s/sony c800g full band rap.wav?dl=0


    Rap vox solo mic'd with an sony c800g ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/r68denfzujuzequ/sony c800g solo rap .wav?dl=0


    Full band playing mic'd with an JZ BH2 ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/i3bn2c91t8vnlla/JZ BH1 full band rap.wav?dl=0


    Rap vox solo mic'd with an JZ BH2 ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ey0sgjrfg29eut/JZ BH1 solo rap.wav?dl=0


    Folk live band/studio example:

    Full band playing mic'd with an sony c800g ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwc95eotnzk7ylk/sony c800g full band sining.wav?dl=0


    Singing vox solo mic'd with an sony c800g ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/plev62wtijz9x1e/sony c800g solo sining.wav?dl=0


    Full band playing mic'd with an JZ BH2 ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9otzvg0rsdqeo2/JZ BH1 full band singing.wav?dl=0


    Singing vox solo mic'd with an JZ BH2 ONLY --->
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/7j8k5x6eskpsoqq/JZ BH1 solo siniging.wav?dl=0


    Carefully listen to both and compare as I did. You will notice the sony c800g has more:
    -low end balance
    -smooth highs
    - built in transparent compression

    So how would you go about modifying or pre mixing this mic to sound more like a sony c800g?

    Please feel free to share ITB, OTB, and/or any mic modification recommendations! I appreciate you all, and who ever is kind of enough to help me out!
     
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  3. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    @Jake Jlinngall The Black Holes are good mics, more so when you take into consideration their cost. The C800G, on the other hand is a super good mic. Equalization and emulation does help to some extent, as demonstrated by Slate's VMS. However, frequency response is not the only factor that makes the C800G different from a Black Hole. Although you could use equalization to replicate the on-axis frequency response of the C800G, you can't replicate nor emulate the off-axis response of the C800G. In that off axis sound, lies that the magic of the C800G. Therefore, if I was chasing that C800G sound I would sell the Black Hole and buy either a Peluso VTB $1,350 or a JJAudio Akita $1,650. Not only do they come pretty close to capturing the nuances of the C800G, they do so for $6,500 less.

    http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/microphones/VTB.html

    http://jjaudiomic.com/Akita.php
     
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  4. Jake Jlinngall

    Jake Jlinngall Kapellmeister

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    Interesting. You are 100% about the off axis as well. I love the BH2 but the HF is just too harsh for me! I will strongly take into consideration the two other mics you mentioned.

    Btw am I being delusional about this in built compression that is going on in the sony c800g I think I hear? It is very very light and transparent but I notice it. How would one replicate that feature of this mic? as most plugins or even hardware is too noticeable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  5. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    I think that what you are hearing is the valve driven character of the 6AU6 vacuum tube in the mid frequencies. On the other hand, while I don't know how many hours the C800G that you used had, one thing to keep in mind is that the tubes in it can last as little as 200 hours. Indeed, I personally would not trust a C800G with more than 400 hours on its tube. When the 6AU6 starts to wear out, the dynamics may start to weaken and the top end to roll off.
     
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  6. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    I was waylaid yesterday and could not post, but GAP has a version of the C800G that is half the price of the Sony. 98% of the original for 50% of the price. It might or not be worth it to you.

    https://goldenagepremier.com/ga-800g/

    [​IMG]
     
  7. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    As I told the OP. If he is after the C800G sound the best way to achieve it is with a high quality clone. Emulation, equalization is not going to cut it. Selling the Black Hole and buying the high quality clone makes more sense than trying to modify it. With that said, $4000 for a clone from someone like GAP is a lot of money so it better be oustanding.
     
  8. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    Better be! But thank goodness Stam supposedly has one of his SA-800 mics in stock.

    https://stamaudio.com/shop/microphones/sa-800/

     
  9. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    I love Stam Audio offerings, this one looks on paper like a good option. With that said, there is an observation that I will like to make.
    I know that technology has advanced a lot since Sony designed the C800G, yet I don't know how some of the C800G clones we have mentioned get away without the heat sink. It was meant to create consistent operational temperatures for the tube, which in turn leads to more consistent performance of the microphone and supposedly extends the life of the tube. Therefore, I have to wonder how does the lack of a sink heat affects the overall sound, and an already ridiculously low tube lifespan.
     
  10. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    Here's a tidbit of how the mic is not supposed to fry the valves...

    The C-800Gā€™s classic semiconductor active cooling and external cooling system design is also used in the GA-800Gto ensure the highest possible signal-to-noise ratio. The tube ā€” a 6AU6 ā€” is mounted in an aluminum casing, with the semiconductor cooling chip attached to the bottom. The temperature of the tube in the GA-800G is effectively kept stable when the GA-800G is in use; the heat generated by the tube being effectively dissipated. The heat that the tube generates is transferred to the reverse side of the semiconductor and onto the outer aluminum alloy heat sink at the rear of the microphone. This heat sink then dissipates the heat from the semiconductor cooling chip into the environment.

    And...

    NOS 6AU6 from France
    In order to ensure long life for the tube, Golden Age chose a new-old-stock (NOS) GIFTE 6AU6 tube from France with a maximum anode voltage rating of approximately 300 volts. The tube in this circuit has an anode voltage of 90V and will generate more heat than tubes in many other tube microphones that typically use voltages between 35 and 50V. The higher voltage used in the GA-800G increases the heat dissipation, so the active semiconductor cooling system is a critical element of the design."


    Also...but not in the mic, but the power supply...



    "After many subjective listening tests comparing a tube rectifying circuit with a solid state one, Golden Age found that they actually preferred the sound of the latter, so this is what they used in the GA-800G. The bonus is that you never need to worry about replacing tubes in the included power supply!"

    Yes, it best sound incredible for 4 grand with sweet top and a true sound.
     
  11. stamaudio

    stamaudio Newbie

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    This question I get quite often.

    The short answer is that it is untrue that it affects the performances of the mic or extends the life of the tube.

    I have made about 400 SA-800 by now, the first 20 have been around for maybe 3 years or more, being used daily. Never has a tube failed.

    Bare in mind I use the same body as the U47 replica with the Sony head basket. Being so much larger probably has a positive effect on this as there is more room for dissipation.

    Regardless, it's a very cheap tube to replace and it comes with a 2 year warranty, tube included.

    I am now making an MK2 with a new transformer. Got it even closer I would like to believe

    Thanks!
     
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