Correct, but no one claimed that, if I got it right. We're just 'discussing' the pros and cons and the definition of -18dBFS=0VU.

 

i just read the thread quickly. so it is possible that i misinterpreted something.
but even then: who cares?
the standards of the broadcasters have no meaning at all for the home user! or let's talk about the fact that VU has no meaning for the broadcasters anymore and actually never had any meaning for them!
And also for the ITB user it doesn't really matter. most of them don't even know how to interpret a VU meter. so why use it then?
they're so wrongly formed by their youtube mixing gurus (who mostly talk complete nonsense) that they don't even understand the basics of gain-staging.
then they make such nonsense as normalizing already balanced multitrack mixes to -18dbfs, or pulling down all levels so far that the master track shows -18dbfs, or leveling each track to 0vu, etc pp.
just stop it!
just trust your ears and don't give a damn about tips from some self-proclaimed mixing gurus, read a few books that have established themselves as a standard and understand the tips in manuals for what they are: examples of use (no rules)

 

Does it say "Threshold" anywhere on an 1176 plugin?

You actualy drive the input into a fixed threashold and then adjust the output.

What confuses me about 1176 - especially with the CLA76 - is that it seems that the higher you set the ratio the lower the gan reduction seems (besides from all-buttons-in mode, of course). Can someone explain that to me please?

 

Last edited: Feb 4, 2020

Yes, that is correct. 1176 has a fixed threshold.
but as i said before:
the standard presets of most hardware emulations are calibrated to have 0VU (1K sin -18dbfs) as the threshold.
at least with the ik black76. send an input signal with 0VU into the black 76 (init preset) and you get a super light compression.

 

Last edited: Feb 4, 2020

I know this behavior from The Glue (I think). The higher the ratio, the higher the threshold (but the output is round about the same) and this results in less compression.

 

Because many compressors have a different knee according to the ratio.Softer ratios have a softer knee,higher ratios have a harder knee.

So it may result in lower gain reduction with a higher ratio if you hit quietly your compressor.But raise the input level and past a cetain point the gain reduction will be suddenly more important (than a softer ratio,and because of the hard knee).

I hope you understand my point,sorry for my English guys.

 

Ah, okay this explanation makes sense. I didn't know that the knee also changes with the ratio.

 

Although in some cases this is correct, I'm not sure about the CLA76. In The Glue's case it's just a higher threshold, not a different knee.

 

a threshold control is just a gain control anyway. you can control it with a gain utility before the plugin.
fuck limits

 

IK Black 76 and Waves CLA76 have a different knee according to the ratio.

 

I don't use the Glue,so I don't know.But your theory about a different threshold according to the ratio is surprising.

 

I think -18dBFS is too low, unless you're talking about recording actual audio through your interface. Your audio interface's preamps are designed just like every other preamp and shouldn't operate any hotter than that (-18 dBFS being roughly the equivalent of 0VU).

As for plugs, I used to normalize all my tracks to 0dBFS after recording and mix that way. Not a good idea, especially when using compressors or EQ plugs. It's my understanding that most, if not all plugs, are designed to deal with a "line level signal" (which includes bass post-DI/amp, guitar post DI/amp, vocals post preamp, line outs from keyboards, etc.), but that's where you need to decide what's "line level". These days, when I record in Digital Performer, I go by the Trim plug's reading and the throw of the fader -- the Trim plug's meter goes into the yellow at -6dBFS and the faders top out at +6dBFS, so I try to keep all my tracks peaking at -6dBFS. Makes logical sense to me. I've noticed that playing a DI'd guitar track into Amplitube, for example, you start losing an ideal sound below -6dBFS, and on leads, I can jack the input as high as -3dBFS to get a better sound. At -0dBFS, the distortion pretty much compresses it flat and it sounds like shit. I think you need to use your ears to trim a plug's input and find the best possible level for the sound.

An interesting sidenote: you still have to worry about a plug's input if it's a plug you're tracking audio through, like a UAD plug, but as you're already tracking through a preamp at -18dBFS, it should behave normally.

 

You can try using these things instead of numbers. I know, weird.

 

Surprising? Absolutely. Theory? (you should know me better by now ).

Due to the 'strange' compression behaviour of The Glue's I used PluginDoctor to measure it and that was what it showed.

BTW, TrackS3 Black 76 uses a combination of higher threshold and less knee with higher ratio (according to PD), except for the 'all' button, with this the threshold goes down again.

 

Last edited: Feb 5, 2020

F !

 

Mh,

 

but that doesn't say very much about threshold and gain

if somebody is interested: the threshold is a binary trigger circuit outside the signal chain. in simple terms it is an on-off gate connected to a potentiometer, whose voltage is separated by a cv crossover depending on the potential and passed on to the neighbouring sc-circuitgroups. The threshold is usually located between the detector and the ratio circuit.

 

Last edited: Feb 5, 2020

Hardly anything aside from the fact that they both do coexist, which wouldn't make any sense if they were on principal the same.

But I think tun was speaking about input gain, not output like in CL 1B's case. But even then you would need a threshold to define where the compressor starts working. Same with upward compression which would additionally produce a different result.

 

Of course, 2 or more amp circuits can coexist reasonably side by side. But a threshold is something else. That's all I'm saying.

 

internally i mean.
lowering a threshold and raising gain on a fixed threshold are the same thing. if you have a sound that is -12dBFS and a fixed threshold of -10dBFS, you can either raise the gain by 2dB to hit that threshold or you can lower the threshold by 2dB.
some compressors work like this anyway and you can substitute the method with a utility plugin before the compressor.

you can test this for yourself with a compressor that has an input gain stage and variable threshold very easily.

edit:
this will sound different, but its a workaround that is good enough for reasonable changes.

 

Last edited: Feb 6, 2020