we had that back in day with avanger...most i thought wasnt in need of -18

but waves kramer tape is one of i think which need -18DBFS

 

overloud dont need -18

 

Last edited: Jan 30, 2020

if its VA then it might need it. i would assume it would always mention it in the manual.

 

None need... There's a recommendation of -18 dB for some plugins for optimal performance... Just like the hardware. However running things slightly hotter can also be desirable.

The general rule shud be just use your ears... If it sounds good and not clipping internally (digitally)... Carry on.

 

From the point of view of th logic, every plugin should need the digital -18db input signal FS.
This because it needs a logical amount of headroom to operate (exactly that missing 18 decibels to reach the zero).
It's clear that if you reach the 0db everything above that treshold will distort badly.
ALL (and I said ALL) the plugins that allows the user to feed them with very high signal have a clipper inside, that saves from the distortion but it kills the dynamic.
Then you can hear that the sound becomes a kind of saturated and/but horribly flat in dynamic. Some rookie people mistake this as "warm sound" :'(

 

like discussed in the other topic (where this one is derived from I guess),
plugins with floating-point bit range processing theoretically don't need to distort at all above 0dB,
they could even process it at exactly the same way it would have in lower db ranges.
not all plugins process audio in the same way and some expect the audio to be in some kind of ballpark

Having said that, good gain staging as an engineer is in any case like a an accountant with a clean desk.
you are there to get shit done, at some level you'd be expected to know what is going on your project to dive in right away.
my personal experience is, that -18DBFS is quite a good starting point.

I'd recommend Measuring in with a VU meter from time to time to get a feeling for it, but it is not like I'm throwing VU meters all around my project and setting al the volume's as a real scientist all the time.

 

I would say Acustica plugins mostly "breath" more natural with signal feeding -18dbfs .

 

Lots of incorrect information here.
Put simply, many plugins, particularly modern ones have unlimited headroom. most DAWs do too. In some cases no clipping will occur in the DAW at all.

 

sure i can let single tracks clip as long master not clips but that has nothing to do with sweet spot of a plugin...

 

True, but most plugins do not have a sweet spot.
I am not denying the concept of the thread, it is a valid topic and is important information for some plugins. My reply was a response to the claim i replied to

 

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2020

I'd really love if members could post here for which plugin they found out that this -18dB calibration is in fact useful or necessary, regardless of what the manual/developer say.

@Gyro Gearloose, maybe you can change the title from 'want' to 'really need' or 'should really be calibrated to', or something?

 

@Fudsey Plange there's not a single proof in this vid that the calibration is necessary.
Whereas I, on the other hand, could proof several times that it's not.

 

Which audio interface have you got?

 

RME Babyface. Snow Edition, thankfully.

 

Even that doesn't matter with FP.

 

Oh you should try Kush Audio plugs which are balanced around -16dBFS=0vu. Prove what you want, I'm busy making music.

It's your gear, you can do what you want with it. Just don't turn up in a pro studio expecting not be laughed at and told to stay away from the desk.

 

If so, is this necessary? And if why?

What advantages do you have from this restriction and how does it help? Or is it just "I wish it's designed as analogue as possible"? Like the noise floor in some plugins.

I do not think the question should be "which plugins want -18DBFS" but "why would someone need this anyway?"

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2020

many of waves plugins are calibrated to -18 dbfs, especially plugins tha emulate hadrware

 

Good choice, so your D/A converters are aligned @ +15 dBu, which in our 'world' is classed as semi-pro, where RME sticks to the German ARD and studio spec with this interface, which is
PPM +6 dBu = −10 (−9) dBFS. +16 (+15) dBu = 0 dBFS. No VU.

Now, to understand why the argument about FP doesn't hold much, you need to mix a project on your RME and then open it on a system that has, for instance, an RME Fireface UCX that has converters with a level of +19 dBu @0DBFS. (Or do the experiment vice versa)

What do you think would happen if you do that? There's a nice problem for you

 

Last edited: Feb 1, 2020