How do you compose?

Discussion in 'Education' started by the real Pict, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    Bizarre how you think me saying 'music theory is brilliant' is a platitude.:dunno:
    But anyway... still no 'on topic' substance! from you.
    @farao - get 'on topic' - How do YOU compose?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  2. the real Pict

    the real Pict Kapellmeister

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    Do you think there is a generation gap when it comes to composing methods?I was interested in Coldwatrr's reply the way that he constructs tracks is I think a very widespread approach these days also he has no preconceptions of what music should be he is working on instinct and ear and of course knowledge of the tools he is using making sounds that are pleasing to him which is what it's all about in my opinion.

    When I was starting out the software approach wasn't an option as it didn't exist and for most people learning a traditional instrument was the main avenue to producing music.In relation to that I was reading somewhere that traditional music theory isn't well suited to modern pop and electronic genres and that maybe there should be a new type of theory to describe the methods of construction for modern non classical/jazz genres.The thing is none of the theory seems to be able to describe "vibe" or "feeling" it seems to be only concerned with practical construction.The emotional,inspirational,vibe essence of music is poorly described if at all and maybe it isn't even possible to teach "feeling" anyway.

    I remember when Punk burst onto the scene it was amazing how inspired many people were to get a noise maker of some type and just DO IT musical knowledge was no requirement or barrier to self expression.I'm not saying I necessarily enjoyed a lot of that music but it was great to see the outpouring of self expression and the smashing of musical elitism.
     
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  3. Gyro Gearloose

    Gyro Gearloose Audiosexual

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    make hazelnut crush into it
     
  4. the real Pict

    the real Pict Kapellmeister

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    Oh and Coldwatrr thanks for your detailed reply that was exactly the kind of reply I was hoping for and your English is better than many native speakers I know of.
     
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  5. farao

    farao Rock Star

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    I have answered you in PM as to not be off topic here.
     
  6. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    I'm not interested in your PMs.
    I'll just ask you again. Are you capable of being on topic in this thread?
    Please, please, pretty please, tell us all "How do YOU compose?"
    If you think being asked that question in this thread is confrontational then how sad!
     
  7. farao

    farao Rock Star

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    You are being off topic attacking me lol, read your PM instead. It might not be as bad as you think.
     
  8. farao

    farao Rock Star

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    Bad joke removed.
     
  9. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    Is that a cryptic way of saying you left the thread? :rofl:
    That's ok, you hadn't contributed anything anyway - again!
     
  10. Lager

    Lager Guest

    In the 1960s-1970s, music theory come to an end. After that, styles were so simple that didn't require music theory.




    We're fighting on sth that isn't required at all for our time's music. Now we have 2 choices:

    1. We must change the styles of our music. Drastic measures are needed to change the styles.
    2. Forget about the theories and hug and kiss each other.:hug:
    Music styles dictate the music world like dictators.
     
  11. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    Honestly... every f**king thread... geeze.
     
  12. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    @Lager - you mentioning styles just jogged my memory... so thanks for that.
    But I have a kinder perspective than regarding styles as dictators; I think they're just great to explore sometimes.

    I have a 'practical snippet' to say about styles.
    There is another older thread called "software for inspiration in musical composition"

    Although the thread is about software, inevitably people described what they 'practically' did with the software,
    so some bits of that thread would have fitted nicely into this thread.

    I posted this comment https://audiosex.pro/posts/444491/
    Extracts from that post are scavenged below... It describes just one more bag of musical tricks that can be fun to explore.

    This is a path I don't go down very often but it has always been great fun whenever I have.
    It's in what I regard as the production phase (after composition regarded as mostly finished)
    I fully appreciate that many people prefer to not bother with that distinction at all; preferring to regard composition and production as just one interleaved process.

    But for me, if I have a completed song structure and I just want to meddle with it during production,
    then here's some stuff I like to explore.

    Band in a Box, vArranger, One Man Band, provide 'styles'.
    - Band in a Box styles are proprietary format
    - One Man Band handles Yamaha styles
    - vArranger handles Yamaha styles and Roland styles (and several others)

    The nice thing about styles is how they let you feed your own chord progressions into fake bands playing in multiple genres
    and then see/hear what comes out the other end.

    So, for example, imagine you've written a rock song and you just fancy hearing what it might sound like if you asked a jazz quartet to play the same chord progression. If, like me, you can't afford to hire, and can't play like, a jazz quartet,
    you can instead, ask BiaB, One Man Band, or vArranger to pretend to be, e.g., a jazz band (or a band in almost any genre) and then feed your chord progression into it.
    The results you get back will range from a bloody awful cheesy mess, through to occasionally really inspiring.
    So, for example, your next guitar solo might be 'influenced by' a snippet of what you heard from a clarinet player joining in with a trad jazz quintet that was mercilessly crucifying your rock chord progression.

    With One Man Band and vArranger, you open the door to the world of Yamaha styles and Roland styles
    and there are hundreds of thousands of them freely available on the web.
    Even if only 5% of those styles are interesting to you, you can still some find some real gems that can easily throw some surprising strange ideas at you, ideas you probably wouldn't have dreamt up yourself.

    If people try to lazily get 'end results' out of these nice toys, they will be mostly disappointed but if you just want to get creatively provoked into areas outside of your own style(s) using your own chord sequences, then these are great fun to explore.
    The fact that they can all export the midi for whatever quirky stuff they generate is of course a major attraction.
     
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  13. Lager

    Lager Guest

    Thanks a lot for the info, but those styles are not genuine ones. Their main uses are for the music after the 1960s. Those styles are not serious composers' choices, only good for making some fast music by noobs.
     
  14. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    When you say "only good for" - that just suggests that you personally have not found enough ways to creatively explore.
    With any area of music, any area of musicianship, any area of music software, my gut level reaction is always
    "I wonder what I might be able to do with that". I never see any of it as a closed bankrupt area that's only fit to sneer at.
    Even when I hear some music that is absolutely not my listening pleasure, I'm still likely to ask "how did that bit work?"
    I can't see how anyone can profit by just writing things off in a negative manner - how does that help you to achieve anything?
    :dunno:

    Read my comments on styles software again. I too am cynical about anyone lazily trying to get spoon-fed results from them, but it is really easy to find something worth exploring in there - as long as it is feeding into your own creative process - assuming you have one?
     
  15. Lager

    Lager Guest

    Ad sorry I made a comment that you misunderstood it.:bow:

    The styles that you're talking about are mostly 8 or 16 measures long, combinations of instruments for making fast music. In fast music making using templates, the predominant roles are on ears to select what's good or not.

    Music theory's main intention is to activate the brain more than ears to judge a piece of music. The styles or template files that you're talking about are for turning off the brain's role and letting the random creativeness by ears plays the main role.

    Serious music on the other side is not short-template based or even is not random combinations of different templates.
     
  16. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    OK, so I'm going to pass by getting sucked too far into this discussion, even though it could be very interesting - somewhere in the stratosphere. I'm reminding myself that this topic is about "how we actually, practically compose" and I'm really enjoying seeing all those 'down to earth' details that people are presenting.

    Implied in your comments is a sense of...
    "there's serious music (worth something) and there's the stuff the rest of us make with our creative dabbling (worthless)".
    I wouldn't feel even slightly insulted by anyone telling us we're all just creative dabblers, but I would kind-of expect them to also show us how the 'alleged serious stuff' gets made. My view is that, in music, the results of creative dabbling are NOT inferior to so-called serious music.

    For example, I am willing and eager to be lectured to by someone like this lady, who has the cheek, and the audacity, and the humour, and the humility, and above all the stunning talent to express her ideas on how to practically write like Debussy.
    When she's finished bowling you over with explaining how to compose like Debussy she can just as enthusiastically show you how she treats Blues with the same level of enthusiasm and respect.
    Not one drop of 'cynicism or superiority' from this talented lady.

    So, I'm not confronting you, but I am saying that if you have anything practical to offer about how 'so-called' serious music is made, and (much more relevant to this thread) maybe how you actually make it - well, I'm all eyeballs, please tell us.
     
  17. Lager

    Lager Guest

    I'm leaving you to MMJ. He's the absolute master of creativeness and simultaneously non-randomness.:rofl:
     
  18. That's because it is and always has been about the music not the person. Music is timeless, people are not, only the music they leave behind.
     
  19. Lager

    Lager Guest

    AD I hope you don't get sad by my previous comments about styles. TBH, you can spend 40 years or more of your life on combining different styles or mixing of sounds and calling yourself an artist and don't become aware that what you have missed. This may seem vague but never trust 100% to what apparently works for your present time.:wink:

    The end...
     
  20. 23322332

    23322332 Rock Star

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    "Feeling" - a subjective emotional interpretation of a piece of art. Art is not concerned with feelings, maybe you should read books on cognition and psychology of music, not on music theory.

    "outpouring of self expression and the smashing of musical elitism" - Musical elitism? When was the last time when music with any sort of complexity was popular? 40s (big band jazz, I guess)-50s (easy listening pop)? (Punk is from mid 70s and from music theoretical viewpoint it is just minimalistic rock'n'roll.) But simple music was always in vogue - in the past we had folk music (most of which is lost, because it was never notated before 19-20th century) and music for the elite (composed and performed by professionals), and ritual/religious music (again by real pro musicians).
    About self expression - anyone that can afford a personal computer or smarthphone + the cheapest microphone can probably create any kind of music. It is a personal choice what and how to "create". I don't think you can teach this - you can show techniques, but the end result depends on the compositional choices made - maybe that's why there is so much "samey" sounding music - people just copy closely whatever they have heard, but still it has no DEPTH, development, novelty - someone mentioned about these "how to sound like X composer" - for example the Debussy one is pathetic - the title should have been - "how to make a bad pastiche of a certain aspect/period of Debussy's style".
     
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