Hey fellow Audiosexers it's Catalyst looking for a helping hand if you're in the know. Particularly I am interested in anything related to Industrial music production from composition and arrangement to processing and techniques. It can be old school or contemporary Electro-Industrial as I'm actually very curious about both. Old school is more minimal in composition and arrangement while the newer stuff is in my opinion much more complex though I love both for exactly the aforementioned reasons. I've really been struggling because this is one of those genres where there aren't many tutorials even for cash. If there is any tidbit that you could share with me and anyone else interested that would really be awesome of you. For example correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that a lot of artists low-pass filter drum kit elements like hi-hats and cymbals somewhere around 4,500 kHz. Also if you happen to know where to find MIDI to look at that would be cool too because all they have is Nine Inch Nails anywhere I've been. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

look for midi files by such bands as front 242,nitzer ebb,skinny puppy,a split-second and ministry's twitch.Those bands made some of the finest old school industrial music ever produced

 

i'm not familiar with the creation of Industrial Music,
but i can say that Distortion and "harsh reverb" will be your best friend .

as with many Electronic music genres, kick drum sound is important,
here are some good bass drum sounds useful for Electro-Industrial and other sub-genres

ROLAND TR-909 BASS DRUM RECORDED THROUGH 13 DISTORTION UNITS - 96 kHz, 24 bit, 15 MB courtesy of thegearfiend.com


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOoFw4zK0vk


also, if you want, and if you are using vocals in your songs
take a look to this article on Industrial Vocals

also visit this site to get or create some nice original sounds

 

distortion on drumkick, phaser on drumloops (stylus RMX wet loops are good, for rock-based tracks as EDM), reverb on drums and voice (adds some underground cavernous effect), etc...

it depends on what you want to do at first. i listened industrial /post-hardcore rock a lot a few years, that was often giving some dark /atmospheric tracks.
now i'm more on industrial EDM which is more danceable (more kick distortion, less synths & vocals) but maybe less what you're looking for. i think industrial EDM is an improvement of industrial rock: they just keep the beat with more distortion, and drop the useless melodies so the track sounds darker. so i think you need to choose between industrial ambient and industrial dance track at first.

 

Try Vectory ensemble in reaktor! It's fantastic for an industrial rhythmic bed

 

I could also say that Industrial can benefit from (heavy) use of sampling. Not necessarily drum loops, more like air/machinery/glitchy/noise loops and recordings. Another fitting tip for me is to use dark reverbs that emulate an empty factory (duh...) or impulses of similar spaces (I think I actually have one or two that were recorded in a factory-like space) I also tend to think about it more like a "filler" genre/sound-design thing to add to trip-hop/atmospheric/dark ambient tracks. (I'm more into the ambient side, like crazydiamond mentioned) A thing that always helps is to listen to some bands and get ideas. Also, to make the drums/percussion more aggressive I sometimes use 32nds with loud dynamics (sounds like hard-hitting pressing machinery repetitiveness). It also seems to benefit if you stick to low-mid and below frequencies and some highs for air/depth. You can also experiment with metallic percussion or even replace some hats with metals. Finally, some detuning/moderately heavy chorus/phaser/flanger effect to give movement and noisy artifacts and ofc distortion (not too much, don't want a boxy cabinet or anything). Maybe add some sub-bass - even orchestral contrabasses! (bassy, organic, airy) - and stuff like the Waves Lo-Air. That's just me of course. Hopefully you'll find some ideas you can utilise or form your own. *yes*

 

Thanks to everyone for their helpful tips. You guys are what AudioSex is all about.
I also struggle with the music theory and composition part of the process. In terms of music theory in this case it seems that it can actually work against you because this genres seems to use dissonant intervals such as minor seconds and augmented/diminished fifths as more than passing notes.

eMax2
Believe me I have no problem knowing which artist's MIDI I am looking for (I'm very musically diverse) but the problem is where to find this MIDI. All sites I have been to only have Nine Inch Nails and that's if you're lucky. If you know anywhere that can be helpful let us know. Thanks.

ArticStorm
I think you and I really gel in moderating the forums and now here's something else that we have in common.

Me2Audio
Thank you so much for your video, you rock.
Wow 13 distortion units and some of them are really bad ass. I actually have a problem knowing how much distortion to apply and to what part of the frequency spectrum as distorting sub bass for example is not desirable. I know Industrial artists like to really fuck up a sound but things also work in contrast so it's important to pay attention to this fact. When you say harsh reverb are you speaking of the utilization of a distortion unit before the reverb? I know people often say use your ears but when your ears are still developing it's hard to know exactly how to go about the whole process. Oftentimes I will listen to some Industrial and compare but there's so much going on that it can be hard to hone in on details. You also have to remember that their song is the finished product and will certainly not have sounded like that through the composition process. This makes things complicated unless you happen to know how it will sound in the end. Finally thanks so much for your article, I have no doubt that it will be useful.

crazydiamond487
I am looking to explore all facets of Industrial from Aggrotech and Ambient Drones to EBM and Electro-Industrial...and everything in between.

angie
That was one of many things I missed in Reaktor so thanks so much. Wicked.

WNz
Yes you hit the nail right on the head my friend. I've been utilizing movie and television samples in my productions. I literally have a special notebook that I bust out whenever I hear a sample I like and note the movie, time in the movie where sample starts and the first line of the quote so I can quickly reference what is suitable for use in a track. I also search out for good sample packs but there are very few that focus on Industrial (damn you braindead mainstream masses) Altogether great tips mate so thanks so much.

Everyone
And now I'd like to extend an invitation to whoever is interested: I'm pinning this topic and I'd like it to be one of the few sites on the internet that actually has useful tips on Industrial music production so if you found something that worked for you and you'd like to share we would all be grateful. Finally, since you all have gotten to know me you certainly didn't expect me to leave here without leaving a contribution of my own now did you? I like Ohmforce's Ohmicide a lot as a distortion unit for this genre because the sound mangling possibilities are endless and you can also transition between 12 presets live. In addition please enjoy this excellent overview On Creating Industrial Drums written by Michael Arthur Holloway. One time I saw someone being unbelievably rude to him somewhere online most likely being completely ignorant of the fact that he also goes by the name Dead When I Found Her (simply sublime name) who is an amazing artist, a really nice guy and one of the few in this genre to help out the community with tips. I literally wanted to punch the guy in the face. On a side note he mistakes Phil Collins as the artist that first utilized a gated reverb when it was actually Peter Gabriel. You will soon this in our expanded education section that I will begin this coming week. Exciting things are already happening at AudioSex but the best is yet to come. *yes*

 

That's true, especially for atmospheric/background tracks. I should also mention gated reverbs, exciters, bit crushers and filtering. By harsh reverb I understand "reverb with long tails" but I guess it would be better to let him clarify it. And because it's better to talk with examples, here's one: (Drum Pattern with some normal hall/algo reverb, gated reverb, stereo imager/expander, overdrive, bit crusher, compressor/limiter, (melodic) drum-like noise w/ volume/automation sidechaining on background)
http://www.putlocker.com/file/D8899C5994AC83B0

A bit upbeat and on the extreme side but you get the idea.

 

WNz
Absolutely I've recently been experimenting with gated reverbs and bitcrushing. I am a little confused as what general frequency range is bitcrushing used on or is it pretty much a case of "if it sounds good it must be good"? Also is there a general cutoff region such as for example with reverb it is customary to remove the top end which makes the effect obvious. Concerning harsh reverbs I was thinking of a technique on the Dance Music Production reverb sessions and that's why I mentioned that. Honestly your example is great for this thread so thanks for sharing.

 

I don't think there's any general rule on frequencies but why do you want to limit yourself? Or maybe you're looking for guidelines. Some of the more knowledgeable peeps can provide more "rules" as I mostly mention my personal preferences and not necessarily a typical sound. In my example the drums (it can be any drum, not just a typical drum-kit) are full-on, totally un-EQ'ed. The background noise starts from about 500hz and reaches up to about 8000 (falling quicjly to about 3,5k). Still, you can filter/damp the reverb tails/effects and not necessarily the source. These packs could come in handy:
http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/29 (With some tweaking it can be both for beats and fx)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-dark-dub-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/10 (Noise/Feedback)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-feedback-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/11 (Random/Experimental)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-experimental-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/16 (Amped Samples)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-amped-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/20 (Ambient/Spacey Samples)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-ambient-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/27 (Can do wonders with some tweaking and time-stretching/slicing)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-dnb-breaks-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/34 (FX)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-effect-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/47 (Can sparkle creativity)
http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/48 (>>)

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/57 (Percussion)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-percussion-loops.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/59 (Noises, Random FX)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-fx-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/64 (Processed, Damaged)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-criminal-damage-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/65 (Drumz, Process to Death!)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-drum-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/68 (Lo-Fi)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-lofi-samples.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/71 (Atmospheres)
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-atmospheric-samples-1.zip&ns_type=clickin
http://uk.sitestat.com/future/musicradar/s?clickout.musicradar-atmospheric-samples-2.zip&ns_type=clickin

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/83 (Crushed, 8-bit)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-retro-video-game-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/86 (Inndustrial [Beat])
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-industrial-samples.zip (Ideas, ideas...)

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/93 (Could be useful)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-techno-atmos-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/94 (You can never have enough drums!)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-drum-break-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/95 (Yeah...)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-percussion-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/99 (Recordings, Fill up your factory)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-found-sound-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/100 (...)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-realworld-drum-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/101 (What? It said industrial)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-industrial-metal-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/104
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-wavedrum-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/111
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-techno-drum-fx-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/114 (FX)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-out-there-fx-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/121 (More towards sound-design, Background noise)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-domestic-appliance-samples.zip

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-217833/131 (>>)
http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/audio/samples/musicradar-aquatic-adventure-samples.zip

If not anything else, the drums/atmospheres could at least be useful. (That is, if you feel like sampling/editing)

This is where I got the factory IRs I talked about earlier: (Has quite a few not-so-typical IRs)
http://fokkie.home.xs4all.nl/IR.htm
http://fokkie.home.xs4all.nl/IR.htm#Factory
http://fokkie.home.xs4all.nl/IR.htm#smallfactoryhall

 

WNz
You are the man. It's not that I am looking for strict guidelines but it's nice to know what are common norms before I start deviating all over the place. Thank you so much for all that useful information, I'm sure it will be invaluable for everyone in the community looking to expand their knowledge. It is greatly appreciated my friend.

 

Glad to help. Plus, it helps me expand my horizons too. *yes* Maybe there should also be a list with sound libraries, like those from Industrial Strength. Especially everything with the word "tape" on it can give some nice coloration to the sound. I'll add some more:
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2010/06/24/free-sample-shootout-2-acoustic-drums-full-kits/ (Drums samples - Ofc there are thousands but it's good to have variety and some not so easy to find)
http://www.bodycall.net/blog/dark-electro-kickdrum-samples-download.html
http://samples.kb6.de/downloads.php
http://www.audiomicro.com/free-sound-effects/free-industrial-and-machinery

Products:
- Bluezone Corporation, Industrial Samples & Impacts, Boom Sound Effects, Metallic Sounds (If noone's willing to add, i might add some later)

Sorry if it looks a bit like a mish-mash. I try to strike a balance between ambient/atmospheric/sound-design and beat/commercial.

 

WNz
This is just perfect and an exceptional idea concerning a list of samples. I will likely make a separate thread with just good sample libraries suited to the task and I'll include everything you've added here. Don't worry about the layout as it's the information that counts and you've been more than helpful. Plus we don't want people to get too lazy. *no*

 

Heh, right. It would probably be better to keep the production tips here and put the sounds elsewhere.

 

Every fan of old-school industrial knows that the sound of the drums is one of the most crucial elements at play in the mix: both the timbre of the used drum hits and the style of sequencing used in the drum patterns form a definitive element of the 80's-90's industrial sound. They're big, they're thick, they PUNCH; and the patterns are slick, infectious, and often subtle and unpredictable in their movements. And though occasionally (or often...) we hear the standard four-on-the-floor beat, we just as often find syncopated layers of rhythm that, while perhaps simple, nonetheless avoid cliche dance rhythms and form infectious patterns that stick in the mind for days, weeks, years...('Addiction,' anyone?)

If you're like me, you've probably felt that a sad majority of modern industrial music has tended, rather oddly, toward using drums of a very different sort. Today's popular drums, disappointingly, are too frequently built from the standard trance-kicks paired with light snappy snares. And worse yet, these tend to play looping four-on-the-floor patterns with little (if any) variation.

But I'm not here to insult today's drums, but rather to discuss how we can go about making Old School Industrial Drums, and bring this sound back to the genre...

More: http://knobsandsliders.blogspot.gr/2010/10/on-creating-industrial-drums.html

Some picked-out tips from here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/451824-industrial-music-techniques.html (similar to what has been mentioned already but more organised): (I'm fairly surprised they say pretty much the same things I said, albeit a bit more in-depth )

Some gear is also mentioned. To be honest, I'm not sure the hardware is necessary... It's more like "Just pick somehting up and make it your own". But again, it depends on the person and their preferences.

 

Here's some potential industrial music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKMUNfq7pQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlp8Xwy5mL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYAKDkDXvF8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1Hvg2TX214

SAMPLE IT!

 

WNz
I know to some degree it's funny to ask about Industrial production when this genre is anti-music, has always flouted conventions and relied on creativity and experimentation. The best way I can explain it is when you have more experience you experiment with precision because you are more aware of how to push your gear so you can get the most out of it. Oftentimes when I experiment I end up being all over the place and come out with nothing usable or if it's usable it certainly doesn't sound as good as most presets. That's the difference between the canons of the genre and that guy experimenting at home: control. Also with more experience comes a better musical ear that can much quicker hone in on problem areas or much quicker to understand how to get the best out of the sound that you're looking to make. I will say though that I have been experimenting with many of the methods listed and will continue to do so in the future. Thanks so much for all your help man, there is some really good advice in this thread.

 

I don't know anything about the motifs of Aggrotech/EBM, so I can only tell you about industrial:

1. Throbbing Gristle, the seminal industrial project, used a lot of sampling techniques and non-instruments, as well as instruments used in unintended ways.

2. As far as music theory, they objected to using chords.

3. Creating a balanced, hi-fi mix is going to be mostly the same regardless of genre. And just like with anything else, you have to carefully choose the instruments in your arrangement. But since (non-EBM) industrial is so noise-focused, you'll have to either pay extra attention to this, or no attention at all.

4. All sounds have a fundamental pitch, including percussion, and you can find it by looking at a spectrograph where it's usually the highest-peaking frequency (in percussion, I believe), or sometimes with a pitch-detecting plugin if it has a more audible pitch.

5. Consequently, if you're using lots of noise sounds and you do want your music to have rhythm or pitch, you'll probably have to write the songs around the pitches and rhythms of your noises.

6. Despite some people saying NIN isn't very industrial, the arrangements resemble original industrial much more than EBM ("found objects", stringed instruments with odd tunings, etc.)

7. I know you mentioned NIN midi but in case you missed it, remix.nin.com has tons of multi-tracks you can study. Those are the most hi-fi mixing examples available for this kind of music.


Good luck, and I would really love to hear what you make.

 

That's certainly right. I can't disagree to that (although I was referring to use of speficic hardware, not so much the general guidelines). Then again, it may be my personal standpoint and utilisation of the genre (and maybe I have already pretty much found what I'm looking for). I also mentioned I see it more like a "filler" element, so I'm not ultra-inclined to follow very specific rules (I blend stuff a lot). But maybe that's also pretty industrial. Anyway, it's not 'funny', I wasn't being critical in any way. How specific you wanna get is subjective. If I thought it was stupid then I should have the dignity to abstain from replying or participating in the discussion. I'm just passing the info which you can use to form your own perception and path, plus, I could also take somehting from everybody else. But enough with the talking...

I just remembered I also used the Flux BitterSweet (on the bitter side) on that drum example. Transient designers/enhancers can also help you make the sound puchier/more aggressive (not just on drums). A cool recent topic here: http://audiosex.pro/index.php?/topic/6485-adding-release-to-drums-via-vst/ (Check also Dominion and whatever else)

Some free plugins that could be handy are Space360 for room designing and one called Cycle Shifter (check it out and see) for noise. That site has many other unusual plug-ins. The 'time and stretch' one and the 'tempo reverse' are interesting. You could use some spare reverse effects. Time gates (well, also dynamics gates for that matter...) can also assist in making a broken, syncopated sound. Mess around with Swing (from more movement to 'drunk' samples).

Other interesting crap: http://freemusicsoftware.org/category/free-vst-effects-2/envelopes (Feedback, Filters, Flanger, Frequency Modulation, Fuzz, Gate, Glitch, Expanders, Noise Redustion/Gating - make a pallette of favorites and assistants for all of those)