What do you think about LCR hard panning?

Niruvana · Dec 22, 2019

I read some articles about LCR hard panning and they say it is efficient, but some people disagree with that. Especially, people in the rock/metal forums say that they usually use L-L50-C-R50-R panning method. Some people also say it doesn't matter and say make the panning whatever you want.
I would like to listen to the idea/opinion of this forum as well.

Best Answer
You need to understand that panning (as we know it from the mixer) is an effect. It's not natural and the pan knob is not really a very legit knob, it's basically a fake-out that relies on how human ears work when the volume balance is altered between left and right speaker.

Given this, it's a lot easier to see that the various "inbetween" positions in the LCR pan-space are not all equal. Some are decent, some don't really give you much of the illusion you want. People have observed that the strongest positions are LCR, then the 50% between, and then the rest of them. Hence LCR mixing became a thing. It's a way to get rid of the idea that the pan knob is a legit thing.

Volume difference is not the only way to induce the illusion of panning in the human ear. Another great way is Haas-range delay. If you delay L relative to R, you will hear a panning change of a different type, even though the volumes remain unchanged. This delay-based panning is pretty good at filling in the positions between the normal LCR positions accessible via the panpot, so you might get a lot of good mileage out of combining LCR panning and delay based panning.

Click to expand...
Click for original message

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Rorer · Dec 22, 2019

Depends
+6 Left or Right
Every DAW has that.

Satai · Dec 22, 2019

You need to understand that panning (as we know it from the mixer) is an effect. It's not natural and the pan knob is not really a very legit knob, it's basically a fake-out that relies on how human ears work when the volume balance is altered between left and right speaker.

Given this, it's a lot easier to see that the various "inbetween" positions in the LCR pan-space are not all equal. Some are decent, some don't really give you much of the illusion you want. People have observed that the strongest positions are LCR, then the 50% between, and then the rest of them. Hence LCR mixing became a thing. It's a way to get rid of the idea that the pan knob is a legit thing.

Volume difference is not the only way to induce the illusion of panning in the human ear. Another great way is Haas-range delay. If you delay L relative to R, you will hear a panning change of a different type, even though the volumes remain unchanged. This delay-based panning is pretty good at filling in the positions between the normal LCR positions accessible via the panpot, so you might get a lot of good mileage out of combining LCR panning and delay based panning.

Rorer · Dec 22, 2019

Satai said: ↑

You need to understand that panning (as we know it from the mixer) is an effect. It's not natural and the pan knob is not really a very legit knob, it's basically a fake-out that relies on how human ears work when the volume balance is altered between left and right speaker.

Given this, it's a lot easier to see that the various "inbetween" positions in the LCR pan-space are not all equal. Some are decent, some don't really give you much of the illusion you want. People have observed that the strongest positions are LCR, then the 50% between, and then the rest of them. Hence LCR mixing became a thing. It's a way to get rid of the idea that the pan knob is a legit thing.

Volume difference is not the only way to induce the illusion of panning in the human ear. Another great way is Haas-range delay. If you delay L relative to R, you will hear a panning change of a different type, even though the volumes remain unchanged. This delay-based panning is pretty good at filling in the positions between the normal LCR positions accessible via the panpot, so you might get a lot of good mileage out of combining LCR panning and delay based panning.
Click to expand...

Lois Lane · Dec 22, 2019

For stereo tracks this might (someone jump in if I'm mistaken) fit the bill as a good panning plugin in addition to picking up mid/side and master volume duties. Chris from Airwindows creates great sounding tools.

https://www.airwindows.com/everytrim/

No Avenger · Dec 22, 2019

Or you use Reaper, no plugin needed.

Xupito · Dec 22, 2019

Pan variation/automation along the track is underrated.
That being said, man is a lot of work... laziness wins me every time...

Lois Lane said: ↑

For stereo tracks this might (someone jump in if I'm mistaken) fit the bill as a good panning plugin in addition to picking up mid/side and master volume duties. Chris from Airwindows creates great sounding tools.

https://www.airwindows.com/everytrim/

Click to expand...

Yeah he makes good ones.
His ADT is dope, not exactly the topic at hand but the proof he knows his stuff about pan processing.

Ankit · Dec 22, 2019

@Niruvana You must watch this.

tzzsmk · Dec 22, 2019

^^
I agree with Dan Worrall about LCR fckery

Gyro Gearloose · Dec 22, 2019

Click to expand...

https://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/2135/track-stereo-pan

Niruvana · Dec 27, 2019

Satai said: ↑

You need to understand that panning (as we know it from the mixer) is an effect. It's not natural and the pan knob is not really a very legit knob, it's basically a fake-out that relies on how human ears work when the volume balance is altered between left and right speaker.

Given this, it's a lot easier to see that the various "inbetween" positions in the LCR pan-space are not all equal. Some are decent, some don't really give you much of the illusion you want. People have observed that the strongest positions are LCR, then the 50% between, and then the rest of them. Hence LCR mixing became a thing. It's a way to get rid of the idea that the pan knob is a legit thing.

Volume difference is not the only way to induce the illusion of panning in the human ear. Another great way is Haas-range delay. If you delay L relative to R, you will hear a panning change of a different type, even though the volumes remain unchanged. This delay-based panning is pretty good at filling in the positions between the normal LCR positions accessible via the panpot, so you might get a lot of good mileage out of combining LCR panning and delay based panning.
Click to expand...

Man, I didn't realize the panning function in DAW was fake. Mind blowing!!

Last edited: Dec 27, 2019

Niruvana · Dec 27, 2019

Rorer said: ↑

Depends
+6 Left or Right
Every DAW has that.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? Only +6 for panning?

Smoove Grooves · Dec 27, 2019

Maybe referring to pan law settings of +/- 3db? But I'm also confused by the comment.
Unless they refer to summing of L+R.

Last edited: Dec 27, 2019

DonCaballero · Dec 27, 2019

This is also known as Cardinal Points Panning

I use LCR because I find it usually sounds better. When things are hard panned it means the other speaker is not having to reproduce it, less work for each speaker and less interference/masking with whats actually important rather than trying to reproduce some 10-15% of something for random pans in "no man's land".

Yes, much early music is LCR because the pans were switches not pots, but there are countless top mixers/producers using the technique to this day.

Unless there is a specific creative reason to, avoid random pan placement "just because" and you may find increased clarity in your mixes.

https://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=15564.0
https://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=34518.0

Last edited: Dec 27, 2019

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What do you think about LCR hard panning?

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