Thanks for sharing.

 

I grew playing music without theory, drums first, then bass, then guitar (all while dabbling with keys, which in the last few years I have been dedicating most of my time to,) all before I was eighteen, so when I got around to learning music theory, a lot of it came as merely an explanation as to why what worked did; I had already recognized the fundamental patterns from countless jam sessions at local joints and just playing till my fingers bled. I've continued to study theory and brush up on the basics from time to time, just to make sure that the knowledge is there when I need it. I honestly say that I've found that theory does help immensely when you hear what you want to play first, especially when you have a five or six instrument arrangement in your head and all of them aren't going to be playing the exact same scale, but instead, harmonizing at different intervals.

That being said, I can also say that music theory has never written a song for me, not one that was worth a damn, anyway. I find that it's an invaluable tool to quickly constructing what I know that I want to hear, but it's just a tool; you have to provide the spark, or the vision...as corny as that sounds.

I always encourage anyone who is seriously into playing or making music to learn at least the very basic fundamentals of theory so that instead of learning every chord they learn where the notes are, the major scale (and *not learning the minor scale, but learning how to construct the minor scale off of that,) and how to construct chords off of said notes and scales, e.g.: 1, 3b, 5.

It may sound like I'm riding the fence on whether or not to learn theory, but I'm not, I just think there should be a logical balance to your playing experience and/or composing, and the study of why things work the way they do. I wouldn't recommend people fretting (no pun intended,) over how much theory they know since the more you play, some of the pieces naturally will fall into place and you'll gain an understanding through the act of just playing/composing.

Selah

Also, quick sidenote: *never tell people that you make beats *and that you know music theory and play real instruments/make "real" music; in my experience, they don't think that the two can coexist for some reason. You've been warned.

 

Thanks for sharing,

I was just wondering , you said something. About the minor scale do you use the 3 minor scales like this .

A minor natural
ABCDEFGA

1.AMin7 ACEG
2.Bmin7b5 BDFA
3.Cmaj7 CEGB
4 Dmin7 DFAC
5.Emin7 EGBD
6.Fmaj7 FACE
7.G7 GBDF
.........
A harmonic minor
ABCDEFG#A

1.ACEG# Aminmaj
2.Bmin7b5 BDFA
3.Cmaj7#5 CEG#B
4.Dmin7 DFAC
5.E7 EG#BD
6.Fmaj7 FACE
7.G#dim7 G#BDF
.........

A melodic minor
ABCDEF#G#

1.ACEG# Aminmaj
2.BDF#A Bmin7
3.CEG#B Cmaj7#5
4.DF#AC D7
5.EG#BD E7
6.F#ACE F#min7b5
7.G#BDF# G#min7b5

....
I was just wondering if you use those 3 minors like that or not my friend .

 

Yet the theory is not the underlying matrix of relationships between all those things.
Music theory is a way of describing that matrix, or that thing ... we call music.
We call it music theory, but what that matrix was that existed long before humans ...
No one called it music ... the other life forms, if they noticed things that are musical, had their own music theories ...
...their own ways of interpreting their perceptions, and those interpretations allowed them to replicate and create as well.
But did they have the intellect to have an appropriate "theory"?
Birds as the obvious example ... the reasons for many of their musical expressions seem pretty clear (we have theories why they make certain calls) but when it comes to how they learn to make them and compete to have effect on others ...
Well, even without much of human-style intellect, their biology is very sophisticated and their "theory" is in their brains..
I DO believe when the tree falls in the woods with no one to hear ... it STILL makes a sound.
But that is because we gave those energy waves a name "sound".
The tree does not make a "hear", and only humans know of human music theory, and only birds know of bird song theory, and whales, etc.
Before life the matrix of interactions existed, but what is WAS, some would call God, but I call it nature.
Some may say i am playing a word game .. using philosophy to discredit any proposal (as philosophy can, and DOES if done without bias) but I am no relativist.
The first question that must be posed before philosophy is given any time, and asked along with every other question and answer given, for philosophy to have any validity, and finally the question philosophy must answer in the end is, for humans:
What matters? Well we know what matters when we hear it...

 

A humourous description of jazz in song

 

Here is a little taste of what some music theory can do for you that you'll just never be able to do without the music theory ( running through all possibilities in practice routine )
Presented by Jazz Duets channel .

This is what practicing music looks like

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2019

No! This is what it looked like 60 years ago. Why can't you admit this? Why are you so blinded to the wishes of the masses. I reiterate, we are not a jazz forum as much as you would like it to be.

 

And please refrain from thinly veiled threats of removal from the community because you cannot understand my logic.

 

You also accuse me on not reading your past educational. Wrong. I did. Up to a point since page after page is simply repetition of the same thing. Your major flaw in achieving any kind of meaningful instruction with regard to jazz, is that you simply list notes by their most common names. You never allude to time signatures, note length, shifts in octaves, syncopation, poly rhythmic beats, harmonic interplay, or interplay between instruments? Can you differentiate between a semi quaver and a minim? Can you indicate the amount of swing that should be played by a group of musicians? Of course you would need to have an understanding of notation for this. Can you write in this way? Can you sight read? What is the instrument you learnt on? Did you study at a qualified school? Did you achieve good grades?
Why? Because it's one thing to call me a clown for asking, but if you too are a clown masquerading as an authority, then you are worse than a clown.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2019

You are very much like Donald Trump. You love people to agree with you, but hate those who challenge you and will resort to name calling. The term Clowns is a common insult you like to dispense. You prefer the company of sycophants. You find these people enable you to pursue your agenda unhindered.

 

Allow me a moment. Indulge me if you will. This is what a page of a jazz theory educational looks like. It contains information about how to actually make it sound like jazz. It is not just a list of notes.

 

I can't help but think of the classic song I'm Not In Love by 10cc. They made a custom set of tape loops of their voices and "played" them from the mixer. At a couple points in the sound all the faders are pushed up in a glorious wash of sound. So, the answer at that point to "What s the correct note here?" was "all of them." Literally. I can't think of any possible scenario where theory would give that answer in any musical context. So yes, I still agree that theory is good to know but it's trumped by musical artistry and vision. And if you only have one of the two, have the latter one. Music isn't just notes. It's sounds, it's magic happening in overtones, it's choosing timbres, it's space between notes... it's so many things.

 

YouExposed yourself too many times.
You just couldn't resist could you ?
Anyone can trace it all the way back through the thread!
I'm so sorry this is what your life experiance is like .
I hope things improve to where you can get enjoyment and support and change your behavior.
I don't think badly about you.
I hope that you can feel true joy joy de and shift toward living a lifestyle of advancement and happiness.

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2019

Well, that's baffling to say the least. Although I did enjoy the Deepak Chopra life coaching in an ironic sense.

 

I must admit that reply with the sticky glue adhesive is lost on me could you elucidate mmj ?

 

@Crisis? What Crisis?

It is not an 'indulge you' moment because you are addressing a mainstream issue in this thread. There is a massively important distinction to be made between 'quality music theory education' and 'bogus music theory education'. Your comment is therefore vital to appreciate.

However, sorry mate, you really are wasting your breath.
See this quote from another of MMJ's bogus education streams.

--- start of quoted post

-- end of quoted post

The thing to realise is that Dunning Kruger describes a real phenomenon (like the deluded pop-idle contestant).
I suspect MMJ genuinely CAN NOT SEE the difference between your example page of well articulated jazz theory and the mind numbing, pages of repetitive incoherent ramblings that MMJ has posted in this forum, over and over and over and over again, just to get noticed.
To MMJ's perception, your well presented jazz page and his incoherent nonsense are exactly the same!
I know it seems unbelievable to you and me that anyone could be so blind, but that's the reality here.
We have to give MMJ the benefit of the doubt and assume he is NOT lying if he says his notes are 'just as good as your example page'. We have to be kind and assume that he actually believes it.

Quite quite mind boggling!

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2019

Your previous intelligent and incisive post on this topic had not gone unnoticed, but I was beginning to feel like an avalanche of disinformation had loosened the moorings on my mental faculties. I think all signs point to Dunning Kruger and it's a fools errand to attempt to engage with such individuals. I will bow out before I am hit with yet another barrage of band-aids.

 

"if EDM became a true real actual music with meaning and value ."

Are you drunk or what? You literally claimed that a whole GENRE is not a true real actual music and it has no meaning and value AND that you want to give it meaning and value by applying advanced jazz theory on it. (This also explains your secret mission on this forum actually) You literally said this, and then the next day you come out saying you don't remember saying that simple music has no meaning or value and you claim the I'm creating a straw man and beating it, implying I'm delusional.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your efforts in this forum and I value theory as much as anyone should, as someone who teaches it. But theory does not make good music just for the sake of it. We still listen to Mozart not because of music theory but because of his creativity.

And the fact that you actually dare me to list out the " 2 chord" songs... I can't even...

Nope. Ok. You deserve to be treated with the bold claim that The Beatles' Paperback Writer and Eleanor Rigby will both stand the test of time better than anything you will ever come up with. Oh and a three chord - sorry for that - song, "Oh My Darling, Clementine" is one the likes of which you will never come up with. It will be sung 150 years from today, I don't know who will play your super advanced music 150 years later.. Aliens?

Oh and.. I almost forgot! How could I forget THIS one? The intro of Für Elise... The part which made it Für Elise... That which made it stand the test of time.. It's just two chords: Am and E.

So please, let's stop with the nonsense.

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2019

Usually you don't dance right? Your profile on this forum gives the impression that you don't actually dance much. I could be wrong, but the moment you claim that the harmonic component of music has no impact on whether you want to dance or not is the moment I can be sure that you never dance.

Sorry. There is no point in taking this discussion further. But if you wanna further investigate this topic, open Reaper, a free DAW. Make a simple beat that only contains the rhythm element. Distribute it to 100 of your students and tell them to each to make it into an EDM song by each applying a different harmonic component, be it from jazz or rock or pop or whatever progressions. Like a competition. Then release the songs. Ask the world if they want to dance to every single song equally, since they all contain the IDENTICAL rhythm component. Trust me I won't be surprised to see how low your major 13th chords will rank in the list.

Oh and please, please do not bore me with your consecutive bombardments of questions of rhetorical simplifications. Just say what you aim to say and be done with it.

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2019

Man, your personal theories are just as rigid as MMJ's nonsense.
Your interpretations of what I said are also on the wrong path, but whatever.
I suggest you to join reddit: "music theory" (or just use the search bar ), we have discussed point 1 and 2 many times over the years there; I don't have the time and energy to educate "music teachers" like you...