44,1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88,2 kHz, 96 kHz, or 192 ?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by shankar, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,113
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    Location:
    Sanatorium
    Recording with 24bit/88.2kHz
    Mixing with 32bit fp/88.2kHz (or 176.4kHz)
     
  2. mp5

    mp5 Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    101
    The big difference is in the level of quantization errors.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • List
  3. Phil_27

    Phil_27 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    7
    The only thing that really matters is bit-depth, not khz.
     
  4. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,480
    Likes Received:
    1,464
  5. Sylenth.Will.Fall

    Sylenth.Will.Fall Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,660
    Likes Received:
    1,837
    I work with 88,200 at all stages until the master when I bring it down to 44,100. When doing this process however, never forget to add dither, otherwise you will hear added artefacts that you do not want!
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  6. Arsenal

    Arsenal Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Working here with cubase 10.5 and processing vocals a lot and in detail using variaudio I go for 192kHz or 176.4kHz or 96kHz for recording and editing vocal projetcs.
    If working in 48 or 44.1kHz I hear much more artefacts and can't stretch audio as much. Meanwhile for regular instrumental projects that don't need intense audio manipulations I often work in 48kHz.
    Regarding bit depth I recently switched from 32bit float to 64bit float mainly because in my case it's a bit lighter for my CPU.
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  7. mp5

    mp5 Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    101
    Higher precision = less mistakes = more congruence [less dissipation (blurring)] = higher resolution.
     
  8. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,786
    Likes Received:
    2,381
    Location:
    Russia
    And? Where fps here?
    I don't know about video stuff, dependency of video fps on audio sample rates etc. Don't know.
    But why can't you work with 48 or 96? Range is another, but speed not. Everything can be SRCed without loss in quality.
     
  9. macaca

    macaca Noisemaker

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    3
    This.
    24 bit at 44.1 is the answer.
     
  10. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,113
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    Location:
    Sanatorium
    In theory, 44.1k samples per sec are perfectly sufficient to completely digitize an analog waveform.
    However, it should be borne in mind that the digital signal is then manipulated during the mixing process.
    To prevent aliasing artifacts, for example, the material must either be sampled up or oversampled within a plugin. Information is therefore calculated which is not available, then processed and then degraded again (partly dithered).

    This up-, down-, up-, down-sample does much more harm than good things.
    Recording at 88.2k, mixing at 88.2k, mastering at 88.2k, degrading to Redbook 44.1k. Done.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  11. shankar

    shankar Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    289
    Should I use oversampling when i'm working at 96Khz ?
     
  12. Qrchack

    Qrchack Rock Star

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    338
    Location:
    Poland
    Which are completely reduced to white noise by using dithering. Then the "big difference" is the amount of signal to noise you end up with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • List
  13. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,786
    Likes Received:
    2,381
    Location:
    Russia
    If you work with distortion, saturators, exciters, equing highs - yes, you may use extra oversampling, but not too much. If gentle saturation - no oversampling or x2 oversampling for safety. If insane, x4 or x8 usually 99% enough. Don't overdo. Less is more.
    Also, as example,
    Using x4 oversampling at 96k is better than using x8 oversampling at 48k/44.1k.
    It means, oversampling at higher sample rates leads to less phase distortions or ringing artefacts, they will be far from perceived area, in ultrasound area. It is better to distort 35000-48000 Hz at 96kHz sample rate, than 18000-24000 at 48kHz.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  14. shankar

    shankar Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    289
    You are a real gold mine !
    Thank you Mild Pump Milk for your help and to share your knowledge with others :wink:
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
  15. mp5

    mp5 Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    101
    If you record in 24 bit the big difference is there (compared to recording the same thing in 16-bit) to stay - that is what I was talking about.
    You talk irrelevantly about what happens when one is reducing the bit depth. But even that is not what happens at all.
    "Completely reduced to white noise" is a big overstatement. That would mean that re-encoded 16-bit and the original 24-bit file remain (exactly) the same /with some - almost impossible to hear - additional noise/, which is impossible. It just reduces the difference between the recordings to some degree (you can still hear the difference in quality quite distinctly).
     
  16. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,480
    Likes Received:
    1,464
    Hmmm. That's actually something I hadn't considered. That does make a certain sense... Has anyone done any real comparisons of audio strteching at different sample rates I could check out?
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  17. Gyro Gearloose

    Gyro Gearloose Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    4,235
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Location:
    Germany
    reaper
    what benefit i have from that option..?
    ---
    ..ah ....oh...ah...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  18. mp5

    mp5 Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    101
    What is "extra oversampling"? What is "not too much"? What does it mean x4 or x8 usually "99% enough"? All this seems very vague, and does not seem to help at all.
    And the examples given are related to quite a different problem, how oversampling works while processing different sampling rates. so they are irrelevant for your prior thesis.
     
  19. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,090
    Likes Received:
    1,949
  20. mp5

    mp5 Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    101
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
Loading...