is dithering needed if music will just be uploaded online? Spotify/Itunes etc

Discussion in 'Software' started by samsome, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. samsome

    samsome Guest

    is dithering needed if music will just be uploaded online? Spotify/Itunes etc

    thank you!
     
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  3. Satai

    Satai Rock Star

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    Yes.

    If you're familiar with games, you can think of dithering as some extra anti-aliasing, or something like that, for your visuals. Except this is for sound. It's some final mathematical magic dust to make digital seem a bit smoother.

    Dithering needs to be the very last thing in your chain, after the final limiter, right before export as WAV. If you have a big choice of dithering algorithms and don't know what's what, just go with TPDF. Which algo you choose is not a big deal, but TPDF is a good autopilot choice.

    If you forget to do it, it isn't a huge deal either.
     
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  4. korte1975

    korte1975 Guest

    yes. just pick a limiter which has that feature built in. if your project was done in 48khz/24 bit (most common today) , then yes, at mastering the final processor should be a high quality limiter with a dither algorithm, set that to 44.1/16bit - wav. never upload mp3 to those sites, they want wavs or aiffs. if the limiter has no dithering, place one after the limiter , last in the chain. if those sites accept 48/24 files, leave the dithering-conversion for them. whaddaya think?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2019
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  5. samsome

    samsome Guest

    so if spotify accepted 24 bit we would not need dithering for example?
     
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  6. samsome

    samsome Guest

    also if i'm using sylenth1 for example how do i know what bit rate the sound is that comes from sylenth1 vst
     
  7. Satai

    Satai Rock Star

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    You'd use a 24bit dither if your final wav will be 24bit... A 24bit dither is really difficult to hear but it does make 24bit nicer than without it.

    Some people have the opinion that dithering is not useful for Spotify and the like. They argue that AAC/MP3 sound compression which Spotify will auto apply to your file will mess up the dithering. Which is true, but IMHO that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it anyway.

    Synths and audioFX may have dithering built in them or not, it's up to the dev how they code them, so as far as we're concerned everything goes into the soup, then we add our dithering as the last step.
     
  8. Talmi

    Talmi Audiosexual

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    Chris from AirWindows has a passion for dithers. He makes them in all shape and form.
    He made a final toolbox which includes all his dithers, plus monitoring tools.
    Here it is : http://www.airwindows.com/ditherbox-vst/

    As usual with AirWindows it's free to dl but the guy makes his living from Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/airwindows/posts), so be generous as much as he is (or at least as much as you can).
     
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  9. samsome

    samsome Guest

    how do i know what bit rate and sample rate is the sound i'm getting from Sylenth1 for example? is it important to know?
     
  10. Mud Jones

    Mud Jones Platinum Record

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    No reason to go to 16bit/44.1 anymore if you’re not making a CD. If you record 24/48 upload at 24/48
     
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  11. Von_Steyr

    Von_Steyr Guest

  12. Olaf

    Olaf Platinum Record

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    24-bit audio can encode a dynamic range of over 140 dB. Since this range is higher than almost all DACs can reproduce and also higher than humans can perceive without immediate hearing damage, dither would be a bit pointless.
    Soundcloud Spotify and lossy formats in general have a limited amount of bitrate to encode the signal. In most cases it's not a good idea to waste it on the dithering noise instead of the audio itself. Additionally, the psychoacoustic models will mask the noise and render it self-defeating.

    So dithering is only needed when you convert the audio to 16-bit (or lower) yourself to use it as a 16-bit (or lower) audio without further converting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  13. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    For lossy no.
    For lossless yes. Either 16 or 24. Because it is rendered from 32 or 64 bit float DAW.
     
  14. korte1975

    korte1975 Guest

    you dont have to worry about Sylenth , probably higher than 44.1/16 . set your eq/compressor/limiter to highest quality oversampling on the master channel. if you are unsure about mastering , and if you gonna upload to itunes and such so you will probably have some income from those pieces, the best that you send your files to a real mastering engineer. or you can use iZotope Ozone 8's or 9's mastering assistant .
     
  15. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    No. Only when you downsample. If you record in 48kHz/24bit and export lossless 48kHz/24bit you generally don't need to, since -144dBFS is beyond human hearing.

    Back in the days of CD (Redbook 44.1/16bit with 96dB of dynamics) you almost always had to dither, as you might have recorded in 48kHz (or higher) and 24bit. Internal processing is 32bit float (1680dB of dynamics). In some DAWs, like Cubase, you can now process in 64bit internally.

    Nowadays though, most platforms accept higher SR and BD. Even 96kHz and 24bit on some. No direct need for dithering.

    Also, Mp3 and OGG doesn't contan bit depth per se, like lossless wav does.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  16. ryck

    ryck Guest

    No. Im upload whitout it. And they upload too. And my mastering is a shit. Anywhere, they put it. But if u can do it better , is better for you, for you music .
     
  17. samsome

    samsome Guest

    how do I do this in Reaper
     
  18. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    From memory only the compressor has this option and I once saw a vid where they proved the switch has no effect.
     
  19. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    The thing is MP3 is still the most popular format online. And it was designed for 44.1Khz 16bit.
    Although lossy formats doesn't stick to a bit depth, it matters what were designed to encode. When it comes to bit-depth it can be relevant the difference between MP3 and, say, Opus. Not a big difference though.
     
  20. samsome

    samsome Guest


    ok to finally understand something...even if lets say we're staying on 24 bit to 24bit so no dithering required lets say

    i was reading that during mixing and effects you have to do it at higher sample rates and stuff which i don't really understand,

    is that true though? mixing has to be done at higher sample rates than that? i read as high as possible basically
     
  21. korte1975

    korte1975 Guest

    dithering is adding a bit of noise specifically shaped , it adds a bit of creaminess to the sound by masking conversion artifacts. in that case, you can apply dithering. remember : pro mastering houses always add dithering to the final masters. if the material stays on your computer, you don't need to down convert from 48khz/24bit masters, Windows/Macs happily play you those files by default
     
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