Hey guys so something I have been wondering for a while now, when I choose to bounce midi to audio/stem should I do it befor the processing or after? for example

I have an idea Lay it out (Still Keeping the mix free from any effects and automation) Oh no need to bounce some stems to save some cpu Bouncing stems complete Finish making the track Then bounce all the midi Then start laying out the automations and effects ect,

I have trouble with this as sometimes I’m not sure if I should add effects before or after bouncing.

So another example would be,

I mainly use piano as an intro I want it to slowly filter in do I bounce it raw and then add the filter?

Another example would be

I definitely want this piano in my track but I want to make it sound a bit brighter, do I make it brighter using eqs and other effects or do I bounce it and then make it brighter using effects,

 

bounce, fx after

 

Yes, of course after. Otherwise you have to bounce it again and again if the fade, or an eq or whatever doesn't fit.

See it as a recording step, you know what I mean? Compose it, arrange it <-> play it, bounce (record) it, mix it.

And welcome to THE forum.

 

Not necessarily.If I know I don't have to modify my track anymore (instrument+loads of FXs heavy on cpu) or just a little bit of EQ,I bounce it.Then I just add a Pro-Q on it if needed.

I use Studio One and this DAW is great because you can choose to freeze only the instrument or instrument+FXs.And you can bounce in place.

 

Last edited: Oct 3, 2019

But I agree on this of course.You bounce once your composition,arrangement and mix are finished.

 

You bounce the tracks/stems to reduce the CPU load, right? And same goes for fx. Depending on the plug-in(s) used, it could free up a lot of resources. But as long as you don't have to do it, I wouldn't do it, since every time you need to change something later, you would have to "unfreeze" the track(s) and bounce them again. That's laborious and annoying.

And in no usual case I would bounce fader automation or fade envelopes, as they shouldn't cost any measurable CPU time at all.

 

I think the answer to this question is open depending on the circumstances.

For example, often times I bounce tracks early and often in the composition/early production phase, as a. I like forcing decisions on myself, b. free cpu resources, and c. in many cases there are different things you can do with audio then you can with midi etc in the process.

Other times I am dropping stems from a song I have completed and it is mixed etc to my liking, and I am bouncing stems for "future proofing" to some degree (I have songs from 10+ years ago that won't easily be brought back with OS changes, software missing etc...), or for working with others, or for backing tracks for live performances or having the ability to somewhat change the mix if the song is licensed to commercial/tv/film etc.

Then there are the times "in between"... Often times I bounce single tracks with all fx etc, EXCEPT for volume rides and whatnot, (as say "utility" in Ableton is light on resources and drag that plugin over to the newly bounced audio track should I want to alter that...

But also, sometimes if I am doing a whole "drum stem", or "bass stem", I will bounce with all fx on except mastering type things, and if the mastering is key to the mix, I will side chain the mastering with the other tracks in order to at least approximate best what it is doing to that particular collection of tracks in the mix. (e.g.: if you are using a chain of things from Izotope, Fab Filter etc, if you just solo your drums and bounce the output of your 2 bus, it is going to react a lot differently and sound different then if the other tracks in the song were being fed to it as well).

So long answer made short: It really depends on what you want and the circumstances, and there is no hard and fast answer.

 

If I have a midi track in my song I am still in production. which means no processing. It helps me to become organized and to finish my songs.
If I have Songwriting Ideas (like your intro piano) I use an effect on a bounced track just to remember the idea and hide it.
If I am done with my song, I switch over to the mixing phase. Everything gets bounced completely raw. Then I start processing.

 

as others mention already, theres no "correct way" its all down to the context.
but looking at it in the grand scheme of things, i would say : Bounce early. commit to your idea as soon as posible.

avoid having "open options" - its only delaying the unevetble. the time to decide if its "good enough" or if its "bad, need more X" - instead make that decision early one. aim to make it happend from the start. have strong parts that dont need to have more time spend on them, than nessesary.

treat your sessions/midi files as a recording session. You keep on playing "part X" unstill its THERE. then bounce/record it.
then go refine that with whatever you have in mind.

example with the piano "problem" (intro vs main piano parts)
track A, has your piano intro with a lowcut filter automated
track B, has your "piano verse1+2" set at volume X
track C, has your piano parts for the "chours" they get a different treatment from track A and B, its louder and have more highend information, or whatever.

"behind the scenes" in your DAW it only has to work with 1 audiofile

i mean, making music is like 10 million very smal decisions all the time. so to help ourself i'd say simplfy and dont overcomplicated things.

 

Thank you my issue has been solved,...

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2019

Great,but some FXs like reverb,delays,chorus or distortions are part of "sound design",I apply these FXs on the production phase,don't you?
Otherwise it's hard to have an idea of what will be your final sound as they transform it entirely.

 

If you’re just trying to relieve some of the cpu load, you could also freeze tracks depending on your daw

What I do in Live a lot is freeze something, copy the audio to a new channel but keep the frozen one, and then if I decide later that I need to change some midi notes or whatever, just unfreeze the track, re freeze and drag the new bit of audio onto the channel that already has all the fx and automation


In that case I would generally freeze just the synth, or just the synth plus a cpu heavy saturation or filter or whatever so i still have the freedom to make big changes without un- and re- freezing repeatedly

 

Last edited: Oct 3, 2019

This is quite simple in Reaper with the freeze and remove online FX option. When you undo, all your plugins and settings are recalled.

I use a lot of Acqua and Nebula plugins, so for me it's the only way to work, but you need to get your workflow right and do things in a specific order.

 

Last edited: Oct 3, 2019

Duplicate post.

 

No,I stopped that (Sure sometimes there are exceptions). Because I tend to lose myself and compress, EQ Haas effect -sound design etc the shit out of my tracks and loose hours for something that was not that important.

But my Music is not pure electronic music. I use a lot of acoustic instruments.
I have a songwriting phase. Where I do sound design and search for ideas and work on the song.
If I then decide to make one of these idea songs, it is almost done in my head and recorded/created in the daw.
Then I start the production. Which for me is a recording session for acoustics instruments, all synth, and samples, vocals etc.
Basically I start over and record and create everything in my daw again in the best quality I can. Then I bounce everything to audio and edit it. This is also my editing phase. Some processing might happen in this phase too. But not always and not much.

Then I start processing (chorus distortion you named it ...) and than mixing.

With that workflow (I use this for a view years now). I am finally able to put out my music frequently. I really struggled a long time to get songs done. I always jumped around between the phases, froze a track processed it, only to noticed in the end I wasted an hour for a shitty kick. Since I follow this quite strictly organized workflow I finish my songs.

 

This is so smart

I have tracks from four years ago, when i was new to producing and my VST folder was full of a bunch of cracked plugins I barely understood. Such a headache to reopen them now.
In fact the only cracked plug-in that’s permanently on my HD anymore is sausage fattener - because I used to have it as a default part of a frequency splitter rack that i used over and over again for bass in Live like 5 years ago, but i don’t want to buy it bc it’s basically useless to me now. So I just drag it into my vst folder when I need to open an old project

As for forcing yourself to commit, I’ve been working on that for years lol. It’s one of the many things I took into consideration when buying hardware. Make a decision, print it, keep it or scrap the project basically. No dicking around with a so-so idea for three hours trying to make it better than it is


Also wtf is UP Sisyphus! Feels like I never see you around here anymore

 

I have this problem,I'm never satisfied of my work and I never finish my tracks.But I come back to hardware synths since some months and I'm more productive and effective in this way.I MUST bounce and take definitive decisions.It's better for a guy with my personality.

 

Completely my friend, there are so so so many options now that you could totally go down the rabbit hole just dealing with a damn ancillary part or a kick drum where it doesn't need it. I remember the days when I just had a hardware sampler with limited ram and a small sample library. Somehow I made it work with my one guitar and one pedal etc... you use what you have... but now we kinda have everything, and that has become more paralyzing then pining away back then for gear couldn't afford. You don't need it. You just need an idea, to be inspired, and in the mood and whatnot.. use your limitations both in gear and ability to your strength you know?

and good to see YOU! I have been somewhat absent. I am back now, and will be. I just moved across the ocean, 5600 miles from my last home, so I'm getting back down to it and whatnot you know? I hope you are well !

 

Many professional mix engineers ask for stems without any FX processing, except for where it captures a main idea of the song. That should be a clue about when to start adding FX to the tracks.

 

Last edited: Oct 4, 2019

True, and as you said this goes both ways. No, a mix engineer does not want reverb on printed vocal tracks or overly limited/crushed/ drums stems etc, BUT if the fx plays an inherent vital role in the part (say like a Soundtoys Decapitator on a piano or whatnot) etc etc and down the line, believe me, most engineers are gonna want that printed as they don't want to reinvent the wheel or spend hours chasing the demo dragon. No one tells the Edge to print his guitar without the delay as it is married to the performance you know?

I have done a fair amount of mixing in my life where I have gotten stuff with either too little or too much. I also as a performer/composer/producer have delivered stuff to other mix engineers, and it's a matter of finding the "goldilocks zone" on a piece of work, either that, or many times (if I have time), I send 2 batches, one with stuff printed, and others more bare (or just particular parts that I know that I myself if I was mixing it might prefer to go a different direction or approach with)....

Again, this stuff is so context dependent you know?