Advice on Mixing for Multiple Devices

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Classicalbanksy, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Dude.. To be honest, I'd rather not.. I'm not in the habit of going round upsetting myself....
     
  2. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Keepin' the conversation light and airy! That interjection of yours just then, was like the hostess coughing, and asking the Vicar if he'd like more tea....! :)
     
  3. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Sorry - I was planning to ask you for any advice you could give on why so many of my mixes sound "crackly," but I just had to get the Man Parrish crap off my chest... Please forgive me....

    Nothing on the board is hiring red, and yet I can hear a crackling sound. I CANNOT for the life of me isolate the frequency. I THINK there's something around 645Hz, and again around 4K, but that's it. If I sweep it doesnt show up. I thought it might be my monitors, or cans. Replaced the cans, still the same.

    I'm doing SOMETHING badly wrong with a combo of EQ and compression, coz I've just begin to notice if I sometimes don't bother putting ANY EQ on a track (especially if it's something like Spitfire's Strings) I avoid the crackling. I'm becoming aware that there are certain gain levels for things like Choirs above which I cannot go, because this crackling happens again. So the mix has to come down to that level...

    I'm getting better at it, and oddly things like Sonnox's D'essers - for some reason - CAN occasionally help. They can also make things much worse, so I have to be careful about what I'm doing! Grateful for any advice! SR
     
  4. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds like this crackling could be caused by digital clipping at any 16 or 24bit stage.
    As soon as you solo an instrument or sweep through the frequencies you lower the energy and therefore can prevent the clipping you try to isolate.
    Finding the cause can be very laborious. On principle you have to check every plugin's or channel's input.
    Regarding the channels, normally the led meters show the channel's output and if you work with 16 or 24bit an input clipping will not be shown by these meters. Therefore my first suggestion would be to either switch the meters to input or set your project to 32bit FP and see if it's gone.
     
  5. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Oh my word! I'd never stopped to consider that the INPUT might be the issue, had always assumed it was me!! Thanks for that :)
     
  6. indianwebking

    indianwebking Platinum Record

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    so i found my speakers model. it's creative sbs a200
     
  7. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Hey... Just thought I'd share this with you. I was working, using Ethera EVI, from (think it's Big Fish) - LOVE this particular vocal software, because it sounds SO natural and when I use it, it gives me all sorts of new ideas for hooks, vocal riffs etc. And sure enough - that crackling WAS there, but now I look out for it, and I discovered that if I slice that chunk as you can see in the EQ - THAT'S where the problem lies - at least in this instance.

    I checked how I was running Logic last night, (and btw I'm using an Apollo Twin Core Duo (Thunderbolt) as Audio Interface). I'm at 48K, which is great - I try to do everything these days in 48K. I think you CAN hear the difference. 96K for me is just a "bright" 48K!! I dont know how to check whether I'm running in 32bit or 24bit. This is a relatively (for me at least) new iMac, late 2012, spec in the pix. If you can tell me how to check that, I'd be grateful.

    ALSO - it would be good top be able to set the iMac DEFAULT in that case at 48K and 32 bit. I can tweak things after the fact, by for example using Audition - which I've used for years as a Mastering hub, although gotta say that DSP-Quattro IS fanastic!

    https://www.dsp-quattro.com/dspquattro/Site/DSP-Quattro.html

    And Stefano and the guys there those wonderful type of Italians who just demonstrate to the rest of "il bel casino" (the beautiful mess) how it SHOULD be done! Ie don't sit on your ass and expect a corrupt Gov t to make your lives any better any time soon. Anyone who doesnt know what I'm talking about - take a trip BY TRAIN from to Napoli, and when you get through the doors of the central station in Napoli... Call me!!! You'll see what I mean by "Il bel casino!!!"
     

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  8. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    I was gonna say, Sir Saint - if Parrish is a member of this site, can I move that - because of what he's done - to me, my friends, and all those kids around the world we now CANNOT help - he be REMOVED from this website and his membership revoked. And I mean this! The industry clearly NEEDS to be cleaned up. This sort of thing would NEVER go on in Opera and Opera can get quite cruel.... But never this cruel...
     
  9. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    I never worked with Logic but after a short research I found out that it seems to work with 32bit FP internally, which would prevent all channels' input from clipping.
    You can only choose between 16 and 24bit recording (Logic Pro X -> Preferences -> Audio -> Devices: check or uncheck 24-Bit Recording).
    But as long as you don't record the plugin this is of no importance in this matter.

    The EQ settings you posted can't possibly clip anything since you applied only cuts and therefore lowered the energy (btw, the output is set to -2 although you're only cutting...). So this can't be the cause either.
    If you have access to a third party digital EQ, copy the settings and see/hear if the clipping is gone. If Logic's EQ clips and the third party EQ doesn't, this could be a hint to a bug in Logic's EQ. But I'd be very surprised if this is the case.

    96kHz doesn't sound brighter, it has less aliasing, but this could be audible, no doubt.
    As to my experience 48kHz is not much better than 44.1kHz, soundwise and you only need 24bit audio recording, instead of 16bit, if you need a higher dynamic range than 96dB.

    You should be able to set the Apollo's sample rate in the controll software's Info Bar at the bottom.
     
  10. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    My God - you know your stuff! I emailed Spectrasonics, as a lot of the immediate issues are (oddly) from their choral patches. They're normally crystal clear, so not sure what's going on there..

    Finding a really good, malleable choir sound used to be SO easy. I'm now beginning to realise how bad a lot fo them are!

    I had a chat with Tobias Escher from OT and Sandy from Spitfire on the subject recently. My personal opinion is that the developers have been doing the "Choral Bullet" for far too long now. I would love to write more choral music, that I can set to text and realise here avoiding the expense (at least initially) of choir, room etc.

    My suggestion to both those guys was - I thought - simple. But I'm a musician, not a tekkie. However Sandy said it was theoretically possible, and Tobias seemed quite excited.

    My idea is that rather than go to the expense of recording huge sample libraries, simply pass responsibility for language, pronunciation, dialect, diction, all of that- to the composer. So the composer enunciates (I'd imagine speaking probably easier than singing, as you're not allocating an obvious pitch from which the computer has to work. Then the Developers invest the money they've saved by not having to go find a choir in Bratislava, into the quality of what the algorithm can do with the data the composer is entering. So rather like MIDI, the word is divided and manipulated to allow the composer to set it for the highest soprano to the lowest, loudest bass. And Voila! You have a choir that sings REAL INTELLIGIBLE text!

    Which as yet does not exist, apart from those using a number of fixed pre-prepared phrases (usually Latin).

    Tobias from Orchestral Tools, who's a wonderful choral composer in his own right, sounded quite excited by this idea, at which point I began to wish I'd patented it before opening my big mouth! I believe OT "might" be working on something along these lines atm. He'll neither confirm nor deny.

    Sandy, meanwhile, gave a typically stoic, Christian Henson-esque British reply, by saying to manipulate the situation like that, relying so heavily on the algorithm, was not what Spitfire were about, they were there to preserve the sanctity of live performance.

    To which I replied, "Commendable sentiments.. But I think you're somewhat missing the point - Spitfire are after all a business, not a museum of sound!"

    I cant help liking Christian Henson... There are times when I really don't want to, but his ego always seems to hit a pressure valve that brings him back down to earth...! He's what we call a Marmite Man! He's not like Rick Beato - EVERYONE loves Rick Beato!!

    So a year or so ago, I think around the time I discovered Orchestral Tools and decided THEY were my favourite developers, I started to say a slow sad farewell to Spitfire. There was NO WAY I was going to spend £600 on a library (even if it was an Eric Whitacre - who's a choral God!) that just gave me "Ooo" and "Ahhh."

    Btw - am waiting for good old Kontakt to stop spinning my ball, if you catch my drift... Urgh.... If German engineering is supposed to be so good why the fuck can't Kontakt remember where my bloody piano samples are?! I havent moved them...

    Since we ARE encouraged, so I was told, to share our music - this was my "tribute track" to nine other than Christian Henson! I met him at a do, got a selfie from him, told him I'd spent £1,500 on his symphonic collection, and then at the end asked if he'd cut me some slack, and help my new career by following me back on Twitter (I'm @Classicalbanksy on there btw, usually up for a laugh!)

    To celebrate the fact that he DIDN'T, and to this day STILL DOESN'T follow me back on Twitter (I dunno - maybe he thinks I'm not a real composer, I'm just an out of work ex-opera singer annoying everyone online about "stuff" I write..??)

    So I wrote this - ENJOY!!!

     
  11. indianwebking

    indianwebking Platinum Record

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    how much old are you? @classicbanksy
     
  12. MikewithHeart

    MikewithHeart Ultrasonic

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    You are forgiven as you have understood it yourself. (just joking)

    I hope the energy that drove you to write all this down for us, will make its way to fight for the justice at the right spot! Good luck!
     
  13. U-Kadian

    U-Kadian Kapellmeister

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    I mix on these.. I like to try and be professional :guru:

    speakers.JPG
     
  14. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Why do you ask..?
     
  15. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Stylish - do they come in any other colours..?
     
  16. Classicalbanksy

    Classicalbanksy Member

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    Have to say (with all due respect) they're not cheap but they kinda look a bit cheap..

    Updating y KRK Rokkitt 5s is next on my list. Budget of around £500 - £600 (for both!)
     
  17. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    One thing I do to "mix check" on different systems, is to play it on different systems. I've got 2 different types of Bluetooth speakers, one single mono box, and the JBL Extreme2 sitting on my desk beside my monitors. I'll mix check on those during the course of mixing. I'm running through a board with several output connection so it's easy to send the mix to different places. I will also transfer the bounce to my phone and check it there. My mixes improved immensely once I started doing this. The mono Bluetooth cube is excellent for revealing volume/level problems.
    I also play, naturally, in my cars on the way to work, living room soundbar, my truck which has powered woofers in it, etc.
    System translation got better and easier for me once I figured out where to do proper hi passing/low passing on different tracks, and learned where each type of tracks intelligibility lived, and started carving space in the other tracks for that.
     
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