The more simplified version of what I say is this: mix into a VU meter like Klanghelm VUMT, make sure that your drums, bass, and vocals don't go above 0, and that's it.

It doesn't matter what genre of music you're doing, it will be helpful. I mostly do rather noisy and heavy industrial btw. Although I do get into synth/dancy territory at times.

 

Holy technical disputes... Someone quick, sweep the leg!

 

well...
sometimes..
ableton
66-75bpm
i use 2 drumracktracks with my 4*4 drums...little haas delay on one , sometimes a litlle micro panning
then i use a few drum shizzle tracks
then i use a breakbeat loop...maybe shizzled or not but never in og tempo
sometimes resampling a lot
this goes into bus which get comp
drums may have but not always , have allready eq and comp on it...soundesign wise,knockwise what ever..i cant explain sometimes just eq sometimes just comp sometimes both sometimes just mautovolume or nothing

my bassline can have one or maybe 4 tracks and sometimes a lot of return tracks.sometimes resampling a lot..those also allready with soundesign proccessing or pre mixxing

so this must get to groove ...
then i mix some other midfreq like and highfreq like synthesizer stuff into the groove...
a few samples here and there..sometimes resampling a lot
then i arrange a bit...and some volume envelope altering i do for arranging but also then i do gain staging like lower volume peaks if it clips master or bus ..mostly to lower peaks but also raising volume here and there...i guess my style has flexible borders from soundesgn to arragement to pre mix look if it work or worth it to arrangement..- to mixing

im not so sidechain comp guy...more a sidechain shifter guy...

it might sound all wrong what i say here heh heh but someone who is very discerningly pro engineer meant my mix sounds good..heh heh..so i try to learn science behind but want keep my autodidacts shizzle..

 

Last edited: Aug 27, 2019

You have in this video all very well explained, what it is GAIN STAGING and how to do it for most better result with for FX in the chain.
The very basics, but in Pro Tools, but all that applies to all other DAWs.
By far this is probably the best mixing & mastering YouTube channel and i think the very best along with the FabFilter tutorials !

 

Not necessarily. I was just curious about where you were using compression and in what manner. It's always difficult to explain what your method is since every mix is different. The question was out of curiosity, since I have seen peoples mixes that look fine, but nearly all of the volume automation/riding is squashed due to the fact they compressed the shit out of the track in the pre-master; in those cases, it completely defeats the purpose, essentiall;y adding dynamics just to level them back out.
All of my mixes look different, even if you just look at the drums: whether individually compressing drums to taste and then adding only a lite, glue compression (nearly always opto,) on the buss, or sometimes just a compressor on the kick with a compressor on the buss which then more closely resembles dual compression that you might see on a bass, one low threshold, the other high, and dig the buss deep enough to catch the snare, wherever it's sitting. And all of this also changes depending on how wide (or narrow,) I make my drums....as you said, hard to explain without writing a novel. I think any producer worth their weight in compressors knows that less is more. I try to only "fix" something if it's broken.

 

thats interesting..i thought the ssl are the to go ones for glue..which one Acme Opticom XLA-3?LA2?

whats you go to comp for bass...do you leve bass uncompressed sometimes...i guess u use clean bass guitar basses ?

 

maybe similar like this

 

Last edited: Aug 28, 2019

I tried it yesterday, i find that automatic learning process less precise and more tedious than just manually leveling things

 

Gainstaging is very important indeed, especially if you are mixing ITB. A great many plugins ,especially analog modelled ones emulating compressors and equalisers are coded to perform at their best at certain levels and its a very good idea indeed to have a gain/trimmer plugin as the first insert on every channel.Gainstaging is also very important when recording external audio as there is nothing worse than recording an otherwise good take and discovering that its too quiet and having to deal with an accentuated noise floor when you increase the volume

 

One of the most overrated and over-discussed topics on YouTube Audio channels!!!

That's what happens when you're "just" an engineer who's in needs topics to create content on your channel! Actual music producers would tell you it's about getting the fundamentals of production right first (sound selection, key of a song, structure/composition). The rest then comes together naturally. Just turn everything down together to avoid clipping, voila, gain staging fo' yo ass! ;)

And I see a lot of comments of people who just repeat the same shit they heard somebody say in a video like it's an absolutism. For example just because a plugin is modeled to mimmick analog circuits it does not automatically mean, that you have to lower the input of it, it's a case by case scenario and not a tabu! Just listen for yourself and don't regurtutate what somebody else said on youtube.

 

Gaynstaging

 

Objection!
During the last few weeks I tested several dozens of analogue emu eqs and comps and found only one eq that really changed its sound according to the input and not a single compressor that behaved this way (interestingly several comps changed their sound with different output).
But of course I didn't test all eqs and comps, so...

 

I dont want to be rude but if anyone thinks that the level inputing a compressor doesnt change its behaviour then im lost for words to be honest

 

Really? His principle behaviour?

In simple words. I send drums with -18dB RMS into a compressor.
I send the same drums with -10dB RMS into in the same compressor, adjust only the threshold to the same gain reduction and the output to the same peak and both results sound exact the same!
And I'm speaking of analog emu comp, ofc.
So, no change in the behaviour (sound) according to the input level.

 

Last edited: Aug 28, 2019

I wouldnt expect to hear much difference there either , between -18 and -10 is a pretty good ball park range for things working as they should

 

Yes I've tested this just one minute ago with the kramer pie. One kick at +3db another one at -10db input. Null test deletes everything. 32 bit of course.

 

were that ones which especialy had -18 in manual...i guess there also emus without such
i mean this hot stuff here right now we should know
thanks a lot anyways

 

You mean among the ~ 30 I tested? No clue, I didn't read their manuals, I just compared their sound.

 

Last edited: Aug 28, 2019

lol... i think that is the crux of it. always be preloading production. of course, depending on the artist, some come plenty preloaded with plenty of experience and vision. in production, given a modicum of experience, thing should roughly fall into place but it is definitely better the content of the files be compelling rather than the production quality. some of my favorite music is poorly produced, but it usually was not through the lack of knowledge or skill. i do not blame people for trying to find alternative streams of income though.

having said that -- gain staging is important. some people seem to be unaware of the incredible headroom that is available in modern production environments and how little is used in the product. people like to push themselves up against the barbed wire fence in an open green field. it is not unusual to have files with unnecessary clipping, signal buried in the noise floor, to have to 'clip gain' files down 10db or more. however, still not as much of problem as the content of the file being 'good'.

maybe it was less of a problem in the past because people usually had to come up through the rooms. it was still formally taught. the whole system was calibrated to a very limited, specific output. techs and engineers usually had a part in building or constantly upgrading the system. the limits of a system was fairly apparent. pushing level had audible consequences (which were sometimes highly desirable). you could push until things would audibly go flat or get too much. unwanted variables like noise floor were a very apparent audible reality. a lot of noisy things and even small gains in system headroom could be very financially expensive.

yes!. the humble dorrough meter. if there is a piece of hardware that i fetish, this is it. i think you could order your specific standards on the actual unit. mostly only saw them IRL in broadcast-y type places --- calibrated environments with exacting output standards. a lot of music studios aspire to this but...

i always saw boxes like compressors, gates, eqs, etc. as blunt perfunctory tools like a hammer or saw. function generators, oscilloscopes, meters, etc. always caught my eye as some fancy kit. i do not think you would see these things in many contemporary studios. an standalone old VU meter would be permanently pinned, i don't think the calibration screw on those things could accommodate the 'modern world'. maybe a great decorative element for those who like that sort of thing.

there are probably a great number of these 'emulations' that are mostly linear in their response with respect to the signal level input. i think this is maybe a prudent strategy by the developers to be careful with too much non-linear response in the algorithm -- unless they are specifically marketed as distortion ('euphonic colourful saturation' in marketing speak). there is probably a significant proportion of users who are attracted to these types of plugins who have no idea what they are doing in this regard. no published spec. is usually a bad sign, both in the virtual world of the physical world.

on the other hand i think, with regard to your testing parameters, a 8dbu or dbV may not be enough provoke a significant response at the right place in the 'curve' of even some older solid state circuits. of course, some old components such as valves and transformers in a circuit are a different matter. lets face it they were virtually little compressors in themselves as the limits of their specs were approached and the limits were fairly narrow. the performance of these types of components these days are vastly improved [unfortunately].

 

Yep, I think so too, but then I've to wonder what all the hustle about the -18dB input is all about.

 

Last edited: Aug 30, 2019