The Secrets of Music. Hard to Find Info Techniques

MMJ2017 · Jul 19, 2019

Ad Heesive said: ↑

When MMJ finally faced the music - the MMJ score sheet

The history: Within this thread, many people raised doubts about MMJ's self-proclaimed superior knowledge of music theory. Their reasonable questioning has always been met with a bullying style of abusive comments and MMJ has always systematically avoided having his alleged knowledge challenged.

And then almost by chance, someone posted a link to a very simple song, just as an example of a how a simple non-complicated song can be wonderful - you can hear it here Fade into You by Mazzy

This accidentally provided a wonderful test to see if MMJ could actually apply any of his alleged music theory knowledge to a real-world practical example. In his typical 'put-down' response to a simple song, MMJ casually provided us with a bit of insight into his actual analysis skills, i.e., he completely screwed up analysing this very simple song.

Since then, MMJ has been asked several times to 'hands-on' practically apply his alleged theoretical knowledge to the very simple task of providing a basic analysis of this simple song - and I do mean simple - this song has only three simple chords!

This is a task fit for beginners and one which beginners can easily perform. And yet MMJ has consistently failed on this beginner's task. After a couple of embarrassing failures, the task was made even easier for MMJ by me providing a simple straightforward correct analysis and asking him to make sensible comments about this obvious solution. He has consistently failed with that task too.

So, below you can see…

A straightforward analysis of the simple song - it is unambiguous and simple.

Highlights from the list of comical failures and evasive excuses that MMJ has offered so far.

1) A straightforward simple analysis, just the basics.
Here are the simplest guitar chords that you can use.
This is actually all you need to just play along with this charmingly simple song.

The song uses these three chords [A Major, E Major, B minor]

Those three chords are naturally in the key of A Major.

Those three chords are enough to unambiguously identify the key of A Major

The song definitely IS in the key of A Major (no other key can naturally include all three of these chords without first altering at least one of the chords in some way)

Those three chords can be labelled (numbered) as [I, V, ii] (that is a very conventional notation)

For the benefit of anyone that is starting out learning about the basics of music theory, I have also provided a very simple chart at the end of this post that just provides a sketch of the key of A Major.

OK, so, you have now already seen (above) how simple this song analysis really is.

And now you can read about the saga of watching MMJ painfully fail to figure out any of the above and then embarrass himself with utterly weird excuses, and of course resort to throwing insults at anyone that even dares to question his self-appointed guru status.
This is a classic "emperor has no clothes" story.

2) Here are some of the highlights from the endless list of comical failures and evasions that MMJ has provided.

MMJ's 1st utterance

My comments: This is exactly the kind of total nonsense that MMJ loves to shovel. It is designed to intimidate beginners and MMJ hopes it will make him look knowledgeable. A beginner will probably look at this and think "wow- that's complicated". But a non-beginner will look at this and immediately think "this has got absolutely nothing at all to do with the simple song we are analysing - this is deliberately distracting pretentious garbage"

MMJ's 2nd utterance

My comments: Every single one of MMJ's sentence fragments is just completely wrong.
The song structure is not a cadence at all; it is not a B minor cadence (stripped down or otherwise); it is not in key D Major; it is not in relative B minor key; it is not a D Major cadence; it is not a ii V I progression;
The only coherent remark here was MMJ's condescending "Yawn" That was designed to tell his audience that analysing such a trivially easy song is beneath his awesome talent. What a pity that his awesome talent got absolutely nothing right at all.

So, at this point, I provided MMJ with a correct analysis, and invited him to comment. That's a kind thing to do with beginner students. So, for example, I explained how the simple chord sequence in the song was actually [I, V, ii] in A Major and not [ii, V, I] in D Major.
I contrasted his errors with the actual chords from the song.
For example, I wrote this…

You said... "ii V I of dmajor"
If that was true the chords would be E minor, A7 and D Major (and it's nothing like that!)

MMJ's 3rd utterance
Basically just a typical tirade of insults, accusing me of being an ignorant clown, etc, etc, etc, all the typical MMJ stuff that we find in dozens of pages of MMJ threads. Basically, any bullying trick he can think of to deflect attention away from his inability to actually do simple music analysis. Just evasion and insults.

My comments: I then asked him to show me 'specifically' line-by-line where the faults were in my analysis. But of course, he did not attempt to do that, and it is glaringly obvious why. Maybe he can see how a correct analysis exposes his faulty analysis and is far too embarrassed to admit that he screwed up, or even funnier, maybe he just does not understand the simple solution!

MMJ's 4th utterance
Just more tirades and insults, including (for example) the hopeless smokescreen of accusing me of not understanding how his original V7 to Imin6 solution works, e.g.,

My comments: Firstly, I guarantee that I do understand what V7 to Imin6 means, probably a lot better than MMJ does,
but [V7 to Imin6] is irrelevant. I provided MMJ with yet another more detailed analysis and reminded him of one very fundamental fact… i.e., this simple three chord song DOES NOT CONTAIN a [V7 -> Imin6] chord change anywhere at all! and it certainly does not contain a classic [ii -> V -> I] chord sequence either!
I had to remind him (yet again) that this very simple song sequence is actually just [I, V, ii] in A Major and not [ii, V, I] in any key and certainly not in D Major. These are not 'opinions' or 'points of view'; these are simple non-negotiable, and very obvious, facts about this simple song.

MMJ's 5th utterance

My comments: We are now in total delusional fantasy land. Basically MMJ thinks that when I show him how this simple song just IS this sequence [I, V, ii] he thinks I am proposing a whole new theory of how music works. This is hysterical. It is like he is saying this song cannot exist because it does not conform to his fantasy analysis [ii, V, I] "subdominant, to dominant resolving to Tonic".

At this point, I really started to wonder whether MMJ is actually capable of identifying real chords at all, so I drastically simplified everything and offered him a simple explicit task. Answer 'Yes or No' to these basic facts about the song…

The song has these three chords [A Major, E Major, B minor] - [YES or NO] ?

Those three chords are in key of A Major - [YES or NO] ?

Those three chords are [I, V, ii] - [YES or NO] ?

MMJ's 6th utterance
Almost nothing (of course). I have to assume that either it's too embarrassing for him to answer or he genuinely does not know the answers. So he tried to distract everyone (again) by using his old trick (that no-one falls for anymore, and one that really should be picked up by moderators). He posted using one of his many alter-ego accounts. (i.e., the fake identities he uses to congratulate himself and build up his viewing numbers)
So, from MMJ 'in disguise' we got this classic self-indulgent smokescreen

"the progression is "CLUNKY" and amateurish to my ears....i think MMJ was trying to contextualise the sound of it so that it could be used expressively, without focusing on its limitations"

But eventually… a comment also came from MMJ's primary account…

My comments: This is typical MMJ evasion (again), and even the evasion is factually incorrect!
The song is precisely in the key of A Major and cannot exist in any other key without altering the chords in some way. Most bizarre of all is that somewhere in his warped imagination he thinks that I am claiming to have invented a new music theory just because I showed him three chords from a pop song; that is just mind boggling. Are we to assume that this simple song, which just happens to contain [I, V, ii] is somehow providing a ground breaking new music theory? or should we just recognise that this charming and ultra simple pop song is way beyond MMJ's actual musical comprehension.

Summary

MMJ started by providing two wildly incorrect analyses of a trivially simple three-chord pop song

MMJ now thinks the song is too ambiguous to determine a key. But it is not. It's just that he really cannot figure out what key this song is in.

MMJ really cannot identify the correct chords for this song

MMJ really cannot analyse the chord sequence in this song

And MMJ cannot work with or understand the correct analysis even after it has been handed to him on a plate.

My opinion...
Anyone pretending to be the saviour of everyone else's musical education is already behaving in a grotesquely insulting manner, but when that posturing is coming from someone who cannot handle even the most elementary song analysis, then this is poisonous to the pursuit of real education.

---

For the benefit of anyone that is starting out learning about the basics of music theory, here is a simple chart that just provides a sketch of the key of A Major. I put this sketch here only because this is the musical landscape that the song 'Fade into You' lives in (completely and unambiguously) Play chords [I, V, ii] from this chart and you have the song basics.

Here is a simple strum chords version for guitar. The song really is that simple, and still beautiful.

But be careful how you play this folks; according to MMJ, if you play these three chords in this order you will be inventing a new music theory that flies in the face of everything MMJ thinks he understands.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between
Musical musical language.
( Where a song comes from)
And the specific things a song is doing
( Choices made in a singular moment if time)
How this escapes you is beyond me.

I had described the deeper level musical language from where that song came.( What all my threads been about)
I didn't list out what was been done in the song
( Boring and tells you nothing about the music language and possibilities (
It just so happens the song is so empty space and ambugious .
You can make it fit in most keys .
(It's because it's empty space mostly )
However if you pay attention to what notes are resolving where in the vocal melodies you can tell what is happening at the deeper level.
This is why is described the deeper level musical language portion
( There's no interest to writing tab for a song
That's 4 mind of work and tells you nothing about WHY music works the way it does )
Again your misunderstandings
Cause you to embarrass yourself horribly say ignorant things ,
Not be able to distinguish your imagination from reality .

MMJ2017 · Jul 19, 2019

Ad Heesive said: ↑

When MMJ finally faced the music - the MMJ score sheet

The history: Within this thread, many people raised doubts about MMJ's self-proclaimed superior knowledge of music theory. Their reasonable questioning has always been met with a bullying style of abusive comments and MMJ has always systematically avoided having his alleged knowledge challenged.

And then almost by chance, someone posted a link to a very simple song, just as an example of a how a simple non-complicated song can be wonderful - you can hear it here Fade into You by Mazzy

This accidentally provided a wonderful test to see if MMJ could actually apply any of his alleged music theory knowledge to a real-world practical example. In his typical 'put-down' response to a simple song, MMJ casually provided us with a bit of insight into his actual analysis skills, i.e., he completely screwed up analysing this very simple song.

Since then, MMJ has been asked several times to 'hands-on' practically apply his alleged theoretical knowledge to the very simple task of providing a basic analysis of this simple song - and I do mean simple - this song has only three simple chords!

This is a task fit for beginners and one which beginners can easily perform. And yet MMJ has consistently failed on this beginner's task. After a couple of embarrassing failures, the task was made even easier for MMJ by me providing a simple straightforward correct analysis and asking him to make sensible comments about this obvious solution. He has consistently failed with that task too.

So, below you can see…

A straightforward analysis of the simple song - it is unambiguous and simple.

Highlights from the list of comical failures and evasive excuses that MMJ has offered so far.

1) A straightforward simple analysis, just the basics.
Here are the simplest guitar chords that you can use.
This is actually all you need to just play along with this charmingly simple song.

The song uses these three chords [A Major, E Major, B minor]

Those three chords are naturally in the key of A Major.

Those three chords are enough to unambiguously identify the key of A Major

The song definitely IS in the key of A Major (no other key can naturally include all three of these chords without first altering at least one of the chords in some way)

Those three chords can be labelled (numbered) as [I, V, ii] (that is a very conventional notation)

For the benefit of anyone that is starting out learning about the basics of music theory, I have also provided a very simple chart at the end of this post that just provides a sketch of the key of A Major.

OK, so, you have now already seen (above) how simple this song analysis really is.

And now you can read about the saga of watching MMJ painfully fail to figure out any of the above and then embarrass himself with utterly weird excuses, and of course resort to throwing insults at anyone that even dares to question his self-appointed guru status.
This is a classic "emperor has no clothes" story.

2) Here are some of the highlights from the endless list of comical failures and evasions that MMJ has provided.

MMJ's 1st utterance

My comments: This is exactly the kind of total nonsense that MMJ loves to shovel. It is designed to intimidate beginners and MMJ hopes it will make him look knowledgeable. A beginner will probably look at this and think "wow- that's complicated". But a non-beginner will look at this and immediately think "this has got absolutely nothing at all to do with the simple song we are analysing - this is deliberately distracting pretentious garbage"

MMJ's 2nd utterance

My comments: Every single one of MMJ's sentence fragments is just completely wrong.
The song structure is not a cadence at all; it is not a B minor cadence (stripped down or otherwise); it is not in key D Major; it is not in relative B minor key; it is not a D Major cadence; it is not a ii V I progression;
The only coherent remark here was MMJ's condescending "Yawn" That was designed to tell his audience that analysing such a trivially easy song is beneath his awesome talent. What a pity that his awesome talent got absolutely nothing right at all.

So, at this point, I provided MMJ with a correct analysis, and invited him to comment. That's a kind thing to do with beginner students. So, for example, I explained how the simple chord sequence in the song was actually [I, V, ii] in A Major and not [ii, V, I] in D Major.
I contrasted his errors with the actual chords from the song.
For example, I wrote this…

You said... "ii V I of dmajor"
If that was true the chords would be E minor, A7 and D Major (and it's nothing like that!)

MMJ's 3rd utterance
Basically just a typical tirade of insults, accusing me of being an ignorant clown, etc, etc, etc, all the typical MMJ stuff that we find in dozens of pages of MMJ threads. Basically, any bullying trick he can think of to deflect attention away from his inability to actually do simple music analysis. Just evasion and insults.

My comments: I then asked him to show me 'specifically' line-by-line where the faults were in my analysis. But of course, he did not attempt to do that, and it is glaringly obvious why. Maybe he can see how a correct analysis exposes his faulty analysis and is far too embarrassed to admit that he screwed up, or even funnier, maybe he just does not understand the simple solution!

MMJ's 4th utterance
Just more tirades and insults, including (for example) the hopeless smokescreen of accusing me of not understanding how his original V7 to Imin6 solution works, e.g.,

My comments: Firstly, I guarantee that I do understand what V7 to Imin6 means, probably a lot better than MMJ does,
but [V7 to Imin6] is irrelevant. I provided MMJ with yet another more detailed analysis and reminded him of one very fundamental fact… i.e., this simple three chord song DOES NOT CONTAIN a [V7 -> Imin6] chord change anywhere at all! and it certainly does not contain a classic [ii -> V -> I] chord sequence either!
I had to remind him (yet again) that this very simple song sequence is actually just [I, V, ii] in A Major and not [ii, V, I] in any key and certainly not in D Major. These are not 'opinions' or 'points of view'; these are simple non-negotiable, and very obvious, facts about this simple song.

MMJ's 5th utterance

My comments: We are now in total delusional fantasy land. Basically MMJ thinks that when I show him how this simple song just IS this sequence [I, V, ii] he thinks I am proposing a whole new theory of how music works. This is hysterical. It is like he is saying this song cannot exist because it does not conform to his fantasy analysis [ii, V, I] "subdominant, to dominant resolving to Tonic".

At this point, I really started to wonder whether MMJ is actually capable of identifying real chords at all, so I drastically simplified everything and offered him a simple explicit task. Answer 'Yes or No' to these basic facts about the song…

The song has these three chords [A Major, E Major, B minor] - [YES or NO] ?

Those three chords are in key of A Major - [YES or NO] ?

Those three chords are [I, V, ii] - [YES or NO] ?

MMJ's 6th utterance
Almost nothing (of course). I have to assume that either it's too embarrassing for him to answer or he genuinely does not know the answers. So he tried to distract everyone (again) by using his old trick (that no-one falls for anymore, and one that really should be picked up by moderators). He posted using one of his many alter-ego accounts. (i.e., the fake identities he uses to congratulate himself and build up his viewing numbers)
So, from MMJ 'in disguise' we got this classic self-indulgent smokescreen

"the progression is "CLUNKY" and amateurish to my ears....i think MMJ was trying to contextualise the sound of it so that it could be used expressively, without focusing on its limitations"

But eventually… a comment also came from MMJ's primary account…

My comments: This is typical MMJ evasion (again), and even the evasion is factually incorrect!
The song is precisely in the key of A Major and cannot exist in any other key without altering the chords in some way. Most bizarre of all is that somewhere in his warped imagination he thinks that I am claiming to have invented a new music theory just because I showed him three chords from a pop song; that is just mind boggling. Are we to assume that this simple song, which just happens to contain [I, V, ii] is somehow providing a ground breaking new music theory? or should we just recognise that this charming and ultra simple pop song is way beyond MMJ's actual musical comprehension.

Summary

MMJ started by providing two wildly incorrect analyses of a trivially simple three-chord pop song

MMJ now thinks the song is too ambiguous to determine a key. But it is not. It's just that he really cannot figure out what key this song is in.

MMJ really cannot identify the correct chords for this song

MMJ really cannot analyse the chord sequence in this song

And MMJ cannot work with or understand the correct analysis even after it has been handed to him on a plate.

My opinion...
Anyone pretending to be the saviour of everyone else's musical education is already behaving in a grotesquely insulting manner, but when that posturing is coming from someone who cannot handle even the most elementary song analysis, then this is poisonous to the pursuit of real education.

---

For the benefit of anyone that is starting out learning about the basics of music theory, here is a simple chart that just provides a sketch of the key of A Major. I put this sketch here only because this is the musical landscape that the song 'Fade into You' lives in (completely and unambiguously) Play chords [I, V, ii] from this chart and you have the song basics.

Here is a simple strum chords version for guitar. The song really is that simple, and still beautiful.

But be careful how you play this folks; according to MMJ, if you play these three chords in this order you will be inventing a new music theory that flies in the face of everything MMJ thinks he understands.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between
Musical musical language.
( Where a song comes from)
And the specific things a song is doing
( Choices made in a singular moment if time)
How this escapes you is beyond me.

I had described the deeper level musical language from where that song came.( What all my threads been about)
I didn't list out what was been done in the song
( Boring and tells you nothing about the music language and possibilities (
It just so happens the song is so empty space and ambugious .
You can make it fit in most keys .
(It's because it's empty space mostly )
However if you pay attention to what notes are resolving where in the vocal melodies you can tell what is happening at the deeper level.
This is why is described the deeper level musical language portion
( There's no interest to writing tab for a song
That's 4 mind of work and tells you nothing about WHY music works the way it does )
Again your misunderstandings
Cause you to embarrass yourself horribly say ignorant things ,
Not be able to distinguish your imagination from reality .

What you claim is happening in the song does not hold up .

You explanation for what is happening in that song does not make sense.
It's not applicable to entire history of music

It's like taking a sentence then inventing it's own spoken language just for the one sentence .
A language has to be applicable to every sentence .

Every chord can be expanded to be its cadence

I
V to I
ii V I

Those 3 are same thing just incrementally more detailed .

However
I V ii
Has no basis
It means no sense
Take GBDF G7
Going to Dmin7
DFAC
The notes don't resolve correctly

Listen to that songs vocal melodies
Each note resolves somewhere
Listen to it.
It's right inside
The notes go from one place in the vocals resolving to another .
If you haven't figured that out by now
It's no wonder why you behave as you do here .

I'm beginning to wonder if I should stick around .
I can spend that extra time
Doing other things
Not dealing with people's weird thought processes

Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

MMJ2017 · Jul 19, 2019

Secrets of music ( how to series)
______________

How to take a song and make music out if it with limitless creativety!

We will take a simple classic
" Take the A train "
By the Duke Ellington orchestra written by Billy strayhorn ( 1940's)

We will look at all the attributes of the music structure , then see how to make music out of it!

( Music any style any genre of your choosing including any sounds any timbre any layers any drumbeats rhythms any number of instrument layers there are no restrictions it can be your own personal signature style )

The song is A A B A form
It means one section , a different one , then first one again.

Section A
C6 CEGA for 2 bars,. D7#11 for 2 bars

Dmin7 1 bar ,G7 1 bar , C6 1 bar ( Dmin7,G7 1 bar)

Repeat A section x2

On second time through right before we get to section B we change the last bar of section A to be
(Gmin7,C7) this is cadence of Fmaj7 the first chord of section B

B section

Fmaj7 for full 4 bars

D7 2 bars , Dmin7 1 bar, ( G7,G7b9 1 bar)

Then back to our original section A .

That is our chord progression now I will list the chords in order of appearance and show the 7 note scales for the chords ( where all 7 notes can be used on the chord )

1.C6 CEGA..........Scale C Lydian CDEF#GABC

2.D7#11....DF#ACG#...scale Dlydian dominant
.....DEF#G#ABCD

3.Dmin7..DFAC....Scale.D.dorian.DEFGABCD

4.G7..GBDF...scale G altered GG#A#BC#D#FG

5.Fmaj7..FACE........scale F.lydian...FGABCDEF

6.D7..DF#AC......scale..D.Lydian.dominant..
....DEF#G#ABCD

7.G7b9...GBDFG#....scale.G.altered.
(Same as before for G7 above)

For the end of section A leading into section B the cadence to Fmaj7 in beginning of section B 1 bar of
Gmin7,C7

8.Gmin7..GA#DF...G.Dorian..GAA#CDEFG

9.C7..CEGA#.......C.altered..CC#D#EF#G#A#C

Now we have the 2 song sections.
The chord progressions.
The 7 note scales where all 7 notes fit on the chord.
This is everything we need to know in order to make music from it.

Part II

Actual ways of using this information.

1.Guide tones .

Start of playing the 3rd and 7th of each chord through the progression for example .
C6 CEGA. We play the C and A ( even though A is 6th here. For Dmin7 DFAC we play F and C 3rd and 7th and do on do it every chord.

2.common tones .
Comparing the chord to next one the scales
Look at what is same and what is difference
Practice carrying over notes which the chord changes share to hear a minimalistic melody.
Example first chord C6 and it's scale CDEF#GABC
Second chord D7#11 and it's scale DEF#G#ABCD
It's only one note in the scale different so all them other notes can be used over both take your take through progression doing this common tones.

3.Arpeggios .
Play the chord tones for 13579
For the chord as a Melody ( pick out from scale)

4.Scales use a forward and backward direction starting on the notes in chord that travel through the scale for that chord.

PartIII

Now I'm going to give you a advanced technique that's very easy it is called Triad Pairs .
You create 2 TRIADS and go up one down other and different directions .here are the triad pairs for each chord in the whole song .take one triad pair then once used to it pick another.take your time.
Triad Pairs for each chord.

1.C6 chord triad pairs.

CEG,DF#A
EGB,F#AC
GBD,ACE
DF#A,EGB
F#AC,GBD
ACE,BDF#

Chord 2
D7#11 triad pairs

DF#A,EG#B
F#AC,G#BD
ACE,BDF#
CEG#,DF#A
EG#B,F#AC
G#BD,ACE
BDF#,CEG#

Chord 3
Dmin7 triad pairs

DFA,CEG
FAC,GBD
ACE,BDF
CEG,DFA
EGB,FAC
GBD,ACE
BDF,CEG

Chord 4
G7 altered triad pairs

G#BD#,A#C#F
BD#G,C#FG#
D#GA#,FG#B
GA#C#,FG#B
A#C#F,BD#G
C#FG#,D#GA#
FG#B,GA#C#

Chord 5 triad pairs

Fmaj7 triad pairs

FAC,GBD
ACE,BDF
CEG,DFA
EGB,FAC
GBD,ACE
BDF,CEG
DFA,EGB

Chord 6 triad pairs.

D7 Lydian dominant same as chord 2 triad pairs.

Chord 7 triad pairs

G7b9 same as chord 4 triad pairs

Chord 8 triad pairs

Gmin7 triad pairs

GA#D,ACE
A#DF,CEG
DFA,EGA#
FAC,GA#D
ACE,A#DF
CEG,DFA
EGA#,FAC

Chord 9 triad pairs
C7 altered

C#EG#,D#F#A#
EG#C,F#A#C#
G#CD#,A#C#E
CD#F#,C#EG#
D#F#A#,EG#C
F#A#C#,G#CD#
A#C#E,CD#F#

Now we have all our structure explained
Our chords, chord progressions, scales for each chord
And finally every way to play all of those.

Enjoy my friends.

Radioactive Fallout · Jul 19, 2019

@MMJ2017 my friend I want to say:
What you teach are:

Note groupings

Progression from one note grouping to the others

Note has other characteristics like duration, pitch (c4, c5, etc.). Harmony has other characteristics too like rhythm, texture, etc. I think your view to music disregards almost 90% of the music's specification. Music is way more complicated than you are describing in your tutorials.

farao · Jul 19, 2019

Radioactive Fallout said: ↑

@MMJ2017 my friend I want to say:
What you teach are:

Note groupings

Progression from one note grouping to the others

Note has other characteristics like duration, pitch (c4, c5, etc.). Harmony has other characteristics too like rhythm, texture, etc. I think your view to music disregards almost 90% of the music's specification. Music is way more complicated than you are describing in your tutorials.
Click to expand...

What do you want, an failproof short text to make you the best musician in the world? You are right, rhythm is not accounted for so what? Do you really think it would be advisble to teach harmony and rhythm simultaniously, in the same text?

Radioactive Fallout · Jul 19, 2019

farao said: ↑

What do you want, an failproof short text to make you the best musician in the world? You are right, rhythm is not accounted for so what? Do you really think it would be advisble to teach harmony and rhythm simultaniously, in the same text?
Click to expand...

I want to say playing notes in MMJ's styles is an incomplete way of dealing with notes. What he teaches is just the implied and reduced form of particular types of harmony and mostly in dissonant sonority.

MMJ2017 · Jul 19, 2019

Radioactive Fallout said: ↑

@MMJ2017 my friend I want to say:
What you teach are:

Note groupings

Progression from one note grouping to the others

Note has other characteristics like duration, pitch (c4, c5, etc.). Harmony has other characteristics too like rhythm, texture, etc. I think your view to music disregards almost 90% of the music's specification. Music is way more complicated than you are describing in your tutorials.
Click to expand...

What are you expressing my friend?
First
I'm typing from a phone , on a forum in a thread.
Next
Rhythm is not a characteristic of harmony .
Timbre is not a characteristic of harmony
They are separate things .
Rhythm and timbre are not things you can show in text from a phone on a text forum .
I thought this was obvious .
Why the attempt ( but failure ) at attacking ?

Who do you think needs to be shown rhythm and timbre and texture?
That's a personal thing
Which has nothing to do with
Music language

Now with that said if you read this thread from beginning you will see me tell you how to shape texture and timbre .
Lol why the weird attempts at attacks?
It's so idiotic and bizzarre think before you speak
You are way off base with this comment and didn't think it through .lol
I keep getting these weird impulsive and not well thought out attempts at an attack

( But it's misunderstanding every single time

Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

farao · Jul 19, 2019

Radioactive Fallout said: ↑

I want to say playing notes in MMJ's styles is an incomplete way of dealing with notes. What he teaches is just the implied and reduced form of particular types of harmony and mostly in dissonant sonority.
Click to expand...

There, you said it. That was to the gain of exactly noone. Now please stop stalking and let people who get something out of this topic a chance to enjoy it without having to deal with your unhealthy obsession.

Radioactive Fallout · Jul 19, 2019

MMJ2017 said: ↑

Rhythm is not a characteristic of harmony .
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_rhythm

MMJ2017 said: ↑

Why the attempt ( but failure ) at attacking ?
Click to expand...

No, absolutely not, just for the completion of your instructional materials.

You describe everything with notes' names, block chords and scales. They are insufficient to reveal the music's all secrets.

MMJ2017 · Jul 20, 2019

farao said: ↑

There, you said it. That was to the gain of exactly noone. Now please stop stalking and let people who get something out of this topic a chance to enjoy it without having to deal with your unhealthy obsession.
Click to expand...

It's like the clown is trying to convince me that it's my responsibility to not only cover entire language of music .
I have to create the sounds the rhythms textures.
Record the instruments for you, sing on the track , give you a backrub and a fresh pot of coffee
.

Lol
Clown shoe number 7
Self responsibility
Meditate for a month on this concept mofo.

You need to design your own sounds textured timbre
Sound layers rhythms drums
Otherwise
Your just making generic garbage

I'm getting so tired of the hundreds of clowns every ten mins pretending their attacking me
Saying things that semantically sounds like an insult, however when you look at the information of the situation itself they are misunderstanding then blaming me .
Cowards. No honor. No responsibility.
Weak brittle spirits. No spine
I appreciate the constant messages thanking me and positive support that outweigh the clowns 1000 to 1.

Imagine if someone asked
Can I learn the English language.?
Now can you teach me every individual sentence I will forever speak ?
What, are you a damn robot homie?
I think your old enough to decide what rhythms to have. You have graduated far enough to decide timbre and sounds .
Don't be afraid to make decisions
The point of learning music
Is NOT to be force fed what textures to use and copying people's beats and timbre.
( That's making generic music )
Don't you wanna have some things be yours?

However you change rhythm , timbre,texture ,sounds,sound layers

The music language is identical.
Those are surface traits and must be personal to express yourself with .
There are tutorials millions on those surface level
Things if you don't know how.

Don't miss the point if this thread

It's
The secrets of music

Not
" The surface level impulsive glance at the category we name in general music"

I know you get it farao it's just somehow morbidly comical the way some these people behave and impulsively interact . Lol

Last edited: Jul 20, 2019

Radioactive Fallout · Jul 20, 2019

MMJ2017 said: ↑

It's like the clown is trying to convince me that it's my responsibility to not only cover entire language of music .
I have to create the sounds the rhythms textures.
Record the instruments for you, sing on the track , give you a backrub and a fresh pot of coffee
.

Lol
Clown shoe number 7
Self responsibility
Meditate for a month on this concept mofo.

You need to design your own sounds textured timbre
Sound layers rhythms drums
Otherwise
Your just making generic garbage

I'm getting so tired of the hundreds of clowns every ten mins pretending their attacking me
Saying things that semantically sounds like an insult, however when you look at the information of the situation itself they are misunderstanding then blaming me .
Cowards. No honor. No responsibility.
Weak brittle spirits. No spine
I appreciate the constant messages thanking me and positive support that outweigh the clowns 1000 to 1.

Imagine if someone asked
Can I learn the English language.?
Now can you teach me every individual sentence I will forever speak ?
What, are you a damn robot homie?
I think your old enough to decide what rhythms to have. You have graduated far enough to decide timbre and sounds .
Don't be afraid to make decisions
The point of learning music
Is NOT to be force fed what textures to use and copying people's beats and timbre.
( That's making generic music )
Don't you wanna have some things be yours?
Click to expand...

Did not want to emphasize the importance of the rhythm, @farao did.

Once again, describing the music with only the notes' names, block chords and scales is not a good way to help people to picture their musical ideas and concepts perfectly and impeccably. They need more than that that seems you are not very interested in them.

MMJ2017 · Jul 20, 2019

Radioactive Fallout said: ↑

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_rhythm

No, absolutely not, just for the completion of your instructional materials.

You describe everything with notes' names, block chords and scales. They are insufficient to reveal the music's all secrets.
Click to expand...

Are you that much a bonehead?
That's applicable in the process of writing and playing you use harmonic rhythm while your making music!
I'm describing music language the deeper level !
You can't fathom this?

You are responsible for the sounds that come out your monitors with your band name attached!
I'm not here telling people what things to play!
I'm describing the deepest level structure itself where things you play come from!
It's some type disconnect you are having friend.
You need to create the sounds you hear and label your music .
I am just showing you the language .
If you cannot even connect with the concept of music language .
It's identical to comparing English language
To a specific spoken sentence chosen in a moment about a topic .
Does it click yet?
You learn the language to create your own sentences

Music is identical

If you take just this portion of musical language

{ CEGBD}

There are literally 10s thousands different ways to play that maybe more .

That's up to you

Last edited: Jul 20, 2019

Radioactive Fallout · Jul 20, 2019

MMJ2017 said: ↑

language
Click to expand...

You are setting out just a small portion of the music's language or languages that I don't know how you have acquired them, maybe by juxtaposing notes with each other. Juxtaposition of notes is not called the music's language.

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2019

farao · Jul 20, 2019

@Jake Newell @Radioactive Fallout @Ad Heesive

Radioactive Fallout said: ↑

Did not want to emphasize the importance of the rhythm, @farao did.

Once again, describing the music with only the notes' names, block chords and scales is not a good way to help people to picture their musical ideas and concepts perfectly and impeccably. They need more than that that seems you are not very interested in them.
Click to expand...

The last couple of posts you have makes it completely clear that you have no interest in a serious discussion, but that your goal is being disruptive without adding anything of value. This topic is not forced upon you. If you don’t like it you don’t have to participate. To over and over oppose to someone’s educational style or what is being taught is only disruptive and not acceptable. Another member recently did this which resulted in a ban from our forums. Any more of this and you will probably face the same result. The choice is yours. Enough is enough.

MMJ2017 · Jul 20, 2019

So a company recently came out with a software which shows the music language structure like I explain in my threads .
( This evidence demonstrably shoes thesevtrollz and clownz and kacksukkers)
Wrong period.

This is the language of music
Same information I share someone is making it in software you can get 1000 books in it pay private lessons other people to learn it
Millions of people know the language of music.
Check it out

Now I have exposed you .

Millions of people teach the same thing I do on here millions.

7 or 8 ignorant hateful jealous trollz
Vs the entire history of music
You decide

A couple clowns can't figure it out it's too hard to handle so they throw tantrums.
Ohhh it's the whole worlds fault you don't want to take the time to learn what millions have learned.

Face the facts your trolling because your angry that you are jealous instead using information all around you to learn your ego is bruised .
Wah wah

You can now purchase this new program
And pay money to learn what I been giving you free
Clowns .

Last edited: Jul 20, 2019

Radioactive Fallout · Jul 20, 2019

@MMJ2017 my friend never wholly trust the applications. In most cases they will hinder rather than help. Those applications are not made with the most professional musicians but just some general-theory readers and implementers.

MMJ2017 · Jul 20, 2019

Radioactive Fallout said: ↑

@MMJ2017 my friend never wholly trust the applications. In most cases they will hinder rather than help. Those applications are not made with the most professional musicians but just some general-theory readers and implementers.
Click to expand...

True but my point millions separated people across time and space came same conclusions as what I share here .
I'm not forcing anyone accept it they come here my thread or leave . Ignore me my comments
Problem solved .( If they have some alternate music understanding fine go leave use it then
There 7.5 billion human beings .)

MMJ2017 · Jul 20, 2019

MMJ2017 said: ↑

Secrets of music ( how to series)
______________

How to take a song and make music out if it with limitless creativety!

We will take a simple classic
" Take the A train "
By the Duke Ellington orchestra written by Billy strayhorn ( 1940's)

We will look at all the attributes of the music structure , then see how to make music out of it!

( Music any style any genre of your choosing including any sounds any timbre any layers any drumbeats rhythms any number of instrument layers there are no restrictions it can be your own personal signature style )

The song is A A B A form
It means one section , a different one , then first one again.

Section A
C6 CEGA for 2 bars,. D7#11 for 2 bars

Dmin7 1 bar ,G7 1 bar , C6 1 bar ( Dmin7,G7 1 bar)

Repeat A section x2

On second time through right before we get to section B we change the last bar of section A to be
(Gmin7,C7) this is cadence of Fmaj7 the first chord of section B

B section

Fmaj7 for full 4 bars

D7 2 bars , Dmin7 1 bar, ( G7,G7b9 1 bar)

Then back to our original section A .

That is our chord progression now I will list the chords in order of appearance and show the 7 note scales for the chords ( where all 7 notes can be used on the chord )

1.C6 CEGA..........Scale C Lydian CDEF#GABC

2.D7#11....DF#ACG#...scale Dlydian dominant
.....DEF#G#ABCD

3.Dmin7..DFAC....Scale.D.dorian.DEFGABCD

4.G7..GBDF...scale G altered GG#A#BC#D#FG

5.Fmaj7..FACE........scale F.lydian...FGABCDEF

6.D7..DF#AC......scale..D.Lydian.dominant..
....DEF#G#ABCD

7.G7b9...GBDFG#....scale.G.altered.
(Same as before for G7 above)

For the end of section A leading into section B the cadence to Fmaj7 in beginning of section B 1 bar of
Gmin7,C7

8.Gmin7..GA#DF...G.Dorian..GAA#CDEFG

9.C7..CEGA#.......C.altered..CC#D#EF#G#A#C

Now we have the 2 song sections.
The chord progressions.
The 7 note scales where all 7 notes fit on the chord.
This is everything we need to know in order to make music from it.

Part II

Actual ways of using this information.

1.Guide tones .

Start of playing the 3rd and 7th of each chord through the progression for example .
C6 CEGA. We play the C and A ( even though A is 6th here. For Dmin7 DFAC we play F and C 3rd and 7th and do on do it every chord.

2.common tones .
Comparing the chord to next one the scales
Look at what is same and what is difference
Practice carrying over notes which the chord changes share to hear a minimalistic melody.
Example first chord C6 and it's scale CDEF#GABC
Second chord D7#11 and it's scale DEF#G#ABCD
It's only one note in the scale different so all them other notes can be used over both take your take through progression doing this common tones.

3.Arpeggios .
Play the chord tones for 13579
For the chord as a Melody ( pick out from scale)

4.Scales use a forward and backward direction starting on the notes in chord that travel through the scale for that chord.

PartIII

Now I'm going to give you a advanced technique that's very easy it is called Triad Pairs .
You create 2 TRIADS and go up one down other and different directions .here are the triad pairs for each chord in the whole song .take one triad pair then once used to it pick another.take your time.
Triad Pairs for each chord.

1.C6 chord triad pairs.

CEG,DF#A
EGB,F#AC
GBD,ACE
DF#A,EGB
F#AC,GBD
ACE,BDF#

Chord 2
D7#11 triad pairs

DF#A,EG#B
F#AC,G#BD
ACE,BDF#
CEG#,DF#A
EG#B,F#AC
G#BD,ACE
BDF#,CEG#

Chord 3
Dmin7 triad pairs

DFA,CEG
FAC,GBD
ACE,BDF
CEG,DFA
EGB,FAC
GBD,ACE
BDF,CEG

Chord 4
G7 altered triad pairs

G#BD#,A#C#F
BD#G,C#FG#
D#GA#,FG#B
GA#C#,FG#B
A#C#F,BD#G
C#FG#,D#GA#
FG#B,GA#C#

Chord 5 triad pairs

Fmaj7 triad pairs

FAC,GBD
ACE,BDF
CEG,DFA
EGB,FAC
GBD,ACE
BDF,CEG
DFA,EGB

Chord 6 triad pairs.

D7 Lydian dominant same as chord 2 triad pairs.

Chord 7 triad pairs

G7b9 same as chord 4 triad pairs

Chord 8 triad pairs

Gmin7 triad pairs

GA#D,ACE
A#DF,CEG
DFA,EGA#
FAC,GA#D
ACE,A#DF
CEG,DFA
EGA#,FAC

Chord 9 triad pairs
C7 altered

C#EG#,D#F#A#
EG#C,F#A#C#
G#CD#,A#C#E
CD#F#,C#EG#
D#F#A#,EG#C
F#A#C#,G#CD#
A#C#E,CD#F#

Now we have all our structure explained
Our chords, chord progressions, scales for each chord
And finally every way to play all of those.

Enjoy my friends.
Click to expand...

Reposting this demontrable info I shared today because things are getting buried right now.

MMJ2017 · Jul 20, 2019

Secrets of music ( how to series)
____________
Part II

A breakdown of Triad Pairs
In the context of the song " take the A train"
Starting with chord 1

1.C6....CEGA....scale C..Lydian ...CDEF#GABC

Triad pair #1

CEG, DF#A

We will look at specific application if a triad pair in this instance.

Let's begin with the inversions of each triad .
CEG..DF#A
EGC..F#AD
GCE..ADF#

Let's travel up 1st down second

CEGAF#D
EGCDAF#
GCEF#DA
Let's travel down 1st up second

GECDF#A
CGEF#AD
ECGADF#

Let's look at 1st triad
CEG
Let's surround last note with notes from 2nd
CEAF#G
EGDAC
GCF#DE

farao · Jul 20, 2019

I suggest all posts except the educational ones by MMJ is deleted (approx from when Beth started being rude in this topic like 10 pages back).

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