To me, the difference was astonishing. I also adjusted the tail volumes, trying to think about sound and how distance would affect how much of the tail you would hear compared to something that was closer to you. I used Altiverb. Brick Drum room if I remember correctly. This was the glue to tie everything into the same space. Three different instances of the same reverb with the predelay and tail volumes adjusted for distance. I'd send whichever track corresponded to the placement I was after (eg. drums in the back, vocals up front).
I used this:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-soundpath.htm

I really want to record room mics the next time I'm recording. I think I'll get much more realistic depth doing that.

 

Yeah, I know this approach and it works really good, but whenever I did it, I never ended up with 'realistic' predelays. You know what I mean?

Depending on the room this is a good idea and would give your recordings a specific uniqueness.

 

I would imagine that your mileage would vary, dependent upon the type of reverb you're using and the type of space you're trying to create. It's one reason why I went with Altiverb as it's convolution based (perhaps more like the real thing) versus using an algorithmic type of reverb like a bricasti emulation. I also did some specific cuts on the tracks themselves to further accentuate the sense of depth (less top end on elements further back, etc.)

I'm really hoping the room mics will give me the realistic sense of depth I'm looking for as well as help with element separation outside of eq masking. The room we're recording in is of pretty good size, with a decent height ceiling (12 ft). I'm planning on treating the corners to help with unwanted reflections. When time comes to record amps and vocals, I want to place them in the room where I want them spaced in the mix in relation to the drums. It'll be a fun experiment, I think.

Sorry to the OP, I'm off on a tangent somewhat related to your original post, somewhat not.

 

The off axis response of your chosen microphones will be a great defining element of the sound as well as the bleed captured from the close mic placement of the drums et as well as any other live captured instruments in the room. Use the bleed to your advantage to create realism of space, adding bits of each to paint your imaginary perfection for the song. The overheads as the basis of the drumkit sound was my starting point and then adding in elements of other mics.

 

nothing to aplogize...you did made it to an richer thread
i hope this last sentence makes sense in english

 

Yes it is the same. The chart shows 1/4, 1/8, and dotted 1/8. You just keep that number sequence going until you get to 32nd 48th or 64th note delay times and that will give you the milliseconds of predelay.

 

You'll also get phase cancellations unless you use a tape measure to get a multiple of the distance between the first mic and the sound source.

 

Thanks for the tip. This is something I need to begin researching. I'd imagine a good starting place would be the use of room mic's with drum recording.

 

Or if you like paper (and don't run windows): http://www.simonpaul.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/04/Delay-Time-Chart.pdf

 

One question came to mind from the very start of the video - what if my BPM changes, like 10 times in one song? Then the time would have to be automated?

 

Damn.. are you making a cover of "stairway to heaven" or "bohemian rhapsody"?

 

Nope, but I discovered if I vary the project tempo by 1-2BPM in rubato parts (parts without percussion elements), it sounds very organic.
That and my usual signature changes (6/8 -> 5/4 -> 3/4) followed by tempo changes.

 

If I ever make a decent track (and that's a big if), one of the first things I'd automate would be slight changes to the project BPM, and perhaps in some parts remarkable ones.

 

That wouldn't work IMO, the tempo changes are context dependent, mostly related to mood changes.

 

Agreed. When I say automate I mean manually change the BPM depending of the song section "mood", so to speak. Not randomly, ofc

Edited and repackaged: Other parameters too. Volume/velocity, pan, a bit of randomness in the timing... the usual suspects

 

Ok, in case you meant this question is serious, or anyone thinks it is, changing the predelay time for reverb isn't probably necessary, but if you make computer-based music I would adjust the delay times.

 

I still dont get it 100%,yet. please help me:


Is this:
60,000 ➗ BPM ➗ 4 ➗ 4

for the predelay in ms?

or for the reverb time in ms?




So for example, lets say I have 120 BPM:

60,000 ➗ 120 = 500

500 ➗ 4 = 125

125 ➗ 4 = 31,25

means I put the reverb decay time on 31.25 ms? no this can't be right...

 

60000ms/bpm = ms for a quater note. That's all.

If you need the time for a 1/8th note, you'll have to divide by 2, for a 1/16th by 4.

Example: You want to set a delay or a predelay to an 1/8th at 120bpm, this would be 60000/120/2 = 250.

This way you can calculate the delay, predelay or decay time for a bar, a beat (a quater), 1/8th, 1/16 or whatever.

As I said in my first post, in the vid he didn't set the decay time to an 1/8th but to 5/4.

 

Of course, just look at it rolling.

This is what I meant.
4-5BPM oscillation. The difference is quite subtle but there is one

Fixed 80BPM:
https://kmu.files.cnow.at/s/JbWLFcRJXSz4xTA
and 77-82BPM:
https://kmu.files.cnow.at/s/PXmmJ5gGwEykRbP

Edit: decided to tie up loose ends
77-82BPM:
https://kmu.files.cnow.at/s/AsCz9ai5684NaNx
80BPM:
https://kmu.files.cnow.at/s/6YgE43xnf92pN9L

 

Last edited: Jul 21, 2019

Sorry, in my post #56 I shouldn't have quoted the bpm changes you mentioned, but the adaptation.
Undoubtedly, BPM changes can be very helpful for a track, as you demonstrated pretty well with the two short files.
The first file sounds way too static, which is immediately recognizable.
It would be almost ridiculous to adjust the predelay or delay times for this kind of music, imho.
At least I have never seen anyone moving the walls back and forth in a concert hall to achieve this.