To touch to feel
(With me be here now)
One is software
The other, real.

I've never actually used a Kemper, but can anybody that has used that and the Helix compare it it the Helix which I have used?

I've had a Mesa Boogie Mark IV with a slant 4x10, a cool 1972 Kustom combo, a Vox AC 15, a fantastic Dean Markley and a Fender Twin. The Helix is great at 3am playing in my headphones but I'd rather watch the crew pull a bunch of stuff in and out of a trailer than play through software at a gig.

The head tastes best.

 

I only have Helix Native, and I find the Kemper is more responsive to touch, but it could be my interface or even the latency that is having an effect. Anyway. for me the Kemper is ahead when it comes to feel and dynamics, and the playing feedback is always there.

It should be noted that the Helix is modelled, while the Kemper is sort of sampled, and the input signal coming into my computer from the Kemper is via SPDIF, so the audio interface is completely out of the recording loop.

 

Last edited: May 25, 2019

I prefer having 1 or 2 perfect high gain sound instead of 100 OK sounds.
Regarding, recording Cabs, nowadays most of the guitar heads have the direct output and you don't even need to buy those big wat heads. You can connect to your interface and just put some good IRs on them to get a simulated Cab and mic sound.
Compare prices here, Kemper is among the most expensive ones! :
https://www.sweetwater.com/c623--Guitar_Amp_Heads

 

Kemper good device
Do not compare this with tube amps
Tube amps better at this moment, but Kemper can do tons sounds of amps. Difference around 15% (if you tweek all good you can less to 5% difference - room sound when you record you sound with mic)
When Kemper can do multi Layers Profiles - you can say Goodbye Tube Amps
And yes, blind test - and you do wrong choice (this is very hard hear the difference)

 

The difference is very large to me

The Kemper seems like it captures a frozen moment .
Where the real amp And speaker has a fine grain texture of detail that's constantly changing all the time . This is where the multidimensional life is.


Same thing with impulse responses they don't have the non linearites and the fine grain ever changing texture.

 

Listen closely to the fine grain texture
You never heard an amp sim do this before!

 

This is what I'm talking about. Amp sims, including Kemper, don't come even close in terms of nuances and dynamic (yet).

See how he manages to extract a lot of different tones from the same amp, with the same settings, with the same pickup configuration, just by applying different hand technique? This is, in my opinion, exactly where amp sims miserably fail.

They simply don't respond well enough to dynamics.

The first thing I do when testing a new amp sim is to grab my SG Jr clone (single pickup guitar), which I've spent a lot of time tweaking it's volume and tone knobs responses, and play around with the knobs. Man, I've got to tell you: Even the cheapest solid state amps can do better.

One thing is to post an A/B clip with some guy playing the same riff. Another is doing a complete A/B test with a vast spectrum of variable playing techniques and dynamics.

Anyway, I'm not saying Kemper sucks. Like I said, it's versatility can't be beaten by any analog equipment, specially if you have one in your studio...However, in terms of dynamics, it's not there yet.

It probably has something to do with the capturing process. You see, in the analog world, you have endless possibilities of responses to playing technique. Imagine picking intensity being just one of them: In theory, picking intensity can go anywhere between 0 to 100. How could you capture all that in the sampling process? Right now, it's impossible...

Now, throw in other variables like finger picking, hybrid picking, pickup combinations, volume and tone knob rollof, etc...

You can't possibly capture all of that with some 60 seconds of audio feedback impulse response capturing process plus some quick playing analysis refinement...Besides, Kemper can only capture a single configuration state of an amp, which is obviously a VERY simplistic approach, if you're aiming for total source fidelity.

Now, I can envision a future AI driven Kemper like product, where one would sit with the amp to be captured and play through it for an hour, cycling through all it's knob configurations, using different playing techniques, different guitars, different pickup configurations...This would be awesome, but so far, it's not impossible.

Anyway, I believe were're getting there. Somewhere in the next 10 or 15 years.

Just my two cents.

 

Last edited: May 25, 2019

No you wrong they heard a difference between kemper and a real amp they just didnt know which one was the kemper or which one was the real amp as both sounded so close
Go figure!!
A real one has something in the sound i think ALL ampsim miss and hasnt nailed yet its not the ampmodeling its the cab they dont get right the AIR even old Kemper users like Michael Britt says that.
But they are very very close and in a mix noone would notice
Wel most did not even if know it when an old Pod from 1998 or even the earlyer plugin ampfarm was used on countless of records in the late 90,s early 2000

I have listen to many blind tests over the years at home iwithout any pressaure and i almost always got the right answer but sometimes i miss and the funny thing it is often when i am daed sure it is an ampsim and not a real amp

So if someone would set me up for a blindtest in a studio in front of lots of ppl you would know will make fun of your answers and i had to deliver a fast answer under pressaure i might answer wrong very often and also be unsure and i might hesitate even if the feeling is saying this is the real one and this is the kemper .

Its the same phenomena when you sit at home and watch a quiz program on TV you probably know the anser to most question but try do the same during a contest in a tv studio and under pressaure and you probably would answer wrong even on a silly stupid question.

 

@Guitarmaniac64
Do 10 A/B tests with a wager of $1000 on each test. See how many people take it on... not many as it's guess work. Mostly because people know there must be a difference. Not because they hear an actual difference, and a positive/distinctive one more importantly.

See previous post in this thread to show how people hear what they want to hear.

Similar test was done on the Spitfire "Legendary" collectors library a few weeks back. People swore they could hear the fullness, the air getting pushed, the dynamics of the bows and even rosin. Nope, it was all Albion One.

 

I the other day listened to a Steven Slate comparison of TH-U Slate Edition vs. REAL TUBE AMPS? (emphasized just like he inflates) and heard no difference, perhaps the second one might have been maybe a dB louder, but they sounded spot on, really exact. My first thought was that the TH-U was freaking awesome and that I had to cave and finally buy something from him. But then in the next sentence he gave away that they were the same clip and that if anyone heard a difference it was confirmation bias. Sorry, but what a dick.

Now I know that I'll never go there...confirmed and forever biased.

 

If you are talking about this I hear subtle differences, but that doesn't mean one is better.
First, I should play to see if I feel the difference.
Second, these are not high gain amps. The difference gets visible for metal.

 

Last edited: Jun 8, 2019

Well I'm pretty much an honest guy and the Kempers I've tried smash everything out there to bits, functions like a mic'd tube amp to me. Owned enough over the last 25yrs

 

To me Kemper the real thing cannot be faked.
The kemper is good at many sounds ( yet all generic ones )
However there's plenty people love it matches what they need and they happy that's what counts .

For me I need real tube amp , real speakers, real cabinet micd off. ( Unless is scratch tracks I'd use kemper or similar.

This what the real thing sounds like
( Kemper can't even get close the the fine detail portion of the sound of the real deal.
Kemper very generic sounding.
I hate IRs also it's just eq and reverb.
A real speaker and cabinet is 50 percent of your tone , there is incredible amount of detail and things happening that impact your sound that IR or Kemper or any fake generic speaker cab emu , cannot replicate .
No way to fake it.
( Now of course if the interaction of guitar and amp not your thing, you don't listen to the fine grain detail of your tone, and you want 2000 very generic different sounds , than kemper is your dream come true .)
For me it's lot cheap for basic clean tube amp then good guitar speaker and good cabinet miced off is even cheaper than kemper lol.
Kemper cannot replicate power tube non linearities, speaker breakup , air being pushed natural feedback
And any fine grain detail aspect with glass tube valves.
Here is very affordable tube amp
You get legit tone, it's portable touch responsive .
( Just have swap the crap speaker out then you'll actually get amazing tone )

And you can get your sound any volume , whole still loud enough for drummer and small stages.
Now if you want the get something around Kemper price , but demolishing kemper tones something like this .

Listen for yourself to these
Here is original super to give you idea the richness and depth a real amp speaker and cabinet gives you which no digital can ever recreate .

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2019

I've been a vale (tube) amp guy all my life, swore by 'em. Two years ago was asked by a mate to take a blind test as we had heatedly discussed this very topic. The two tones out of the five he A/B'd for me I loved the most and swore were the real amp turned out to be the kemper. Needless to say I bought one, profiled my amps and sold all but one, had sentimental memories for that one and I've never looked back nor ever thought I was 'missing out' on tone or otherwise.
The secret is getting the right profiles. Top Jimmy, Michael Britt and Bert Meulendijk are some of the very best. Not all profiles are created equal. Considering how many venues are demanding a quiet stage, the speed required in studios with budgets so low and the need for efficient reliability and versatility, it was a no brainer.
This 'I can hear the difference' is irrelevant in the modern era and highly questionable.

 

I'm no longer gigging and am selling my Vox AC15C1 and AC4TV and buying a Strymon Iridium. Even if I do go out again can use the Strymon. Times have changed.

 

No! Don't do it!.

( Get the Voxac4 HW I'm telling you , you'll love it get your tone even bedroom volumes with built in attenuator.)

Now I just noticed you had a Voxac4
Damn don't get rid of it!
You'll regret it I'm telling you
Just get a small tiny tube amp then put the new neodymium speakers from celestion in to further make it weigh less.:{
Hey what do I know maybe you'll love the stymon
:D