That got messed up there above sorry bout that it's in the box quote .

 

To OP

Something I found very helpful
When working on music early stages of a song or project .

Think of it like when your building a house you make cement foundation first then add on more and more layers in steps at a time.

So with music
Give yourself some space to work in
Say
Cmaj, Fmaj7,Cmaj(,Fmin,A#7,)Cmajor

Go slow to have space to try things ideas , parts of melodies you might have a price of in mind.
Because that type layout
You have space to try things
And at later time fill in the details more like building a house
You ( put furniture in last lol)

 

Maitreya
To finish off our convo there.
It does not matter what I think regarding your music and where you at with it that's none my bussiness .
All that matters is what you think and feel about it.
(
I'm just trying to offer up a view to consider to question if you can get anything else in there to better it theory or otherwise , but the answer and the question is for you and is none my business my friend have a good night.)

 

Our quotes got all messed up so if not looked at right it might look like im saying what you said and your saying what i said. haha. anyone coming by to read all this - look out for the (Quote)/ that arent in boxes for it all to make sense.

 

Peace MMJ2017. It was fun

 

I love the people here , it's the only place in the world we can do that we do here thank you .
I'm grateful that audiosex is here for us.
(Try doing this with regular people around you in your life yikes :D

 

And in many sites/social networks.
Any veteran here can tell the best of this forum is that we have a mix of completely different levels of:
1. experience
2. talent
3. thoughts
4. background in general
And even being an anonymous one, somehow it works with a surprisingly low level of trolling and elitism/snobbish.

what was the topic again?

 

A good quality of " music"
In the last 30 years is development of new tools textures timbres to use at every stage whether writing , recording it or live performance.
Imagine if we took the best of all time periods and combined with the best of offer today in an attrmpt to make music of a quality and immersion never seen before

Now that would be worth paying for ........

 

of all the posts, this one touched me the mosts (the postest with the mostest?). a piece of folk music amongst the statistically dense oratorios. sometimes simplicity can cut through the noise.

indeed they are ethereal concepts of which we imagine here -- neither dwell nor look not apon them, for all but the briefest moment, lest they be gone, in scared flight from the gross clutches of the corporeal. yet dwell we must and fly they will -- it's a conundrum.

with a mind to overly loquacious posts, i will consciously try not contribute to these ends.

i will also not try to shoehorn the readers mind into a narrow concept of music of my own contrivance ;)

anyway!

recently revisiting some ongoing musings on musique concrete lead me to a more pointed questioning of the distinction of capturing a point in time, regardless of the gross physio-mechanical process (which is actually a big part of the aforementioned discipline), and working from a pre-established ground as opposed to working from a relatively abstract framework, for example, a sculptor who chisels away at any given medium as opposed to building from arbitrary materials in pursuit of expression of a idea. i think this may be a valuable distinction to bring to this sort of discussion. i have no enlightening avocation for the value of either approach, just to advance this distinction as a fairly fundamental point in any discussion on, or around this topic.

of course some may argue, pertaining to the concept of an 'abstract framework (or the like)', that there is no true arbitrary randomness (free will?), but that is just drifting away with the winds of precious time captured or uncaptured and...

 

as you grow, your confidence in yourself, and your ability to create and express the music thats inside you, the "plan" will become "2nd nature" to you and you wont even be "thinking", you will just "do". Everysong is different, so there will be lots of varriations of things and new possibilities in each of them.

nobody can teach you anything. They can show you stuff, or share different perspectives and thoughts on things. but You have to learn it yourself and you do that by actually doing it. You will make mistakes and you will learn from them, and you will improve. Just keep going

music is a language. Music is what you can not express with your lips.

edit: awww so much stuff in this thread, missed it all !!! was a good ride!

 

Last edited: Apr 28, 2019

aanywaaay....back to the OP....OP, you have a lot of points i would agree with musically,about being a conduit, perception of sound etc. Dare i say it but timbre and harmonics and trippiness are much more interesting to me than scales. I play around with process rather than tunes...eg i will write kick and bass stuff first, to see if the groove or harmonic content of a rich synth bass will suggest other sounds to me that would work in the context I am creating. Or I will pick a technique eg chaining loads of fx/delays/beat repeats etc to get an interesting idea to build a tune around, even if it's just snare layering. I like the way a single sound begins to suggest a whole idea to me just through immersion in one thing....Or find a synth sound i like, mouse in some notes, play with all the knobs, see what it suggests. Theory is useful but in my opinion feeling, timbre, sound design and production technique is often more important for the stuff I like-glitch, neurofunk, psy, dub. Our brains will always try to order noise/randomness into a pattern and sound has many more properties than those traditionally considered musical......

 

You breezed over my salient point without addressing it, that there are people that are amazing artists that do not need to fit neatly into your categories. Music is not brain surgery and not akin to literature, nor is it film making, and as a language it is universal and can move the hearts of people of all cultures without an alphabet or common syntax . Music is an expression of the soul that cares little for any concept of your constructs and need of rigidity. Think of all the amazing music that we have all listened to created by who you would label amatur or have nothing of value to share. A few that would come to mind off of the top of my head; Michael Jackson at six, Hendrix with the Isley Brothers at 22, seven year after first picking up his first guitar, Stevie Winwood at 14 as the soul of The Spencer Davis Group while being hailed as being "the cornerstone of Island Records", Beethoven, Mozart and a slew of others, not to mention once again my classmate.

 

The wrongest and most dangerous perception of making music. Unfortunately that 99% has been affected by this highly misleading perception.

 

Can I quote this on my soundcloud page? I take it as a compliment....Yeah, listen to my stuff, I'm sure you can tell that I am catering to less than 99% of people and intentionally....WTF is this:

.................Learn a bit about how perception works, y'know the science bit........? And then please discuss what a wrong and dangerous perception of sound is in greater detail......

 

I don't understand the way you are seeing my frame of reference. I think that is why it feels like I ignored your point to you .( Always enjoy what you contribute here my friend )
You say music is not brain surgery and not like film making etc.
I don't know what you mean by that or how you mean it.

My understanding is that our entire reality works one way , ( no married bachelors or square circles(

What that way which things work in reality ,
Is a level of detail and complexity where it takes a human being a long time to understand the way something works . This is not because there something wrong with the person.
It is because of time itself.
24 hours in a day .
Even if you had all the information say in books the books all stacked up nice right next to your bed where you can just non stop feed information into your brain with no considerations for eating sleeping exersizing showering living a life etc.
It would takes many years of time to get the information of music in its totality into the person's brain where they not only fathom the principles but can actually use it . It's a limitation of time itself.
This is because of the complexity music actually has.
Music is not sone standalone thing that works entirely different than every other thing in the universe.
Any subject you take is the same .
Sit by bed feeding all the information of structural mechanics or brain surgery or film making any subject you pick
Is going to have that same aspect of just taking time years many years to fathom it all understand how it works and be able to apply it.

Now you go into what I consider an entirely different and specific topic of people with no knowledge of music making sounds that you hear and others hear and feel emotions and enjoy.
This is a specific thing
Let's try to be clear what a description of this
Situation is.

A human being all around them over time hearing sounds and music .
Then taking the patterns of what they have heard over time from many different directions and replicating that recreating bits and parts and different combinations purely from the memory of what Yas been heard before in their life.
This is incredibly important for someone who
Makes music .it is a very specific aspect which we all must do .
But isolating this one situation and aspect of developing ourselves .
Then saying you know of people that do this , while at the same time , they don't have the knowledge and information portion of music in their mind fluently . Is just to say " at this time"
The person has developed one aspect of musicianship ( an aspect which we all must develop)
And has not developed other aspects of musicianship .
That is very common , I mean sometimes we tackle one thing at a time build it up then go onto developing another aspect.
It is also the way I developed myself early in life.
I did not get into developing music knowledge in my life until I developed almost every other area .

But because music works the same way a human brain tackling any other complex subject in our reality , when you put in the tine effort and develop the musical knowledge, it puts all the puzzle peices together for you in a way which increases every music ability you have in every way by 10 fold or more.
We woke up found ourselves born into a world in a specific universe ( we could have found out that reality worked in millions of different ways )
But we happened to been born into a reality where there is few blanket statement truths ( because the complexity of reality dependant on context )
However there is one blanket statement truth regarding this topic .


When it comes to human beings,
Knowledge of the way something actually works ,
Is always better than choosing ignorance.
( Not having that knowledge)
Knowledge of music defeats ignorance of music
Regarding every aspect of a person making music.

Now back to your friend
This person developed one aspect out of many,
Got great amazing results developing that one aspect ( which we all must develop that one also)
It is fact that
Developing music knowledge will increase everything this person can do
By learning all the areas which that had not yet .
Their ability to create emotion In you would be 50 fold by developing the other areas as well including knowledge of how music work
Music knowledge will always make you better in everyway , than what you can do with music ignorance
This is a truth about any subject a human partakes in.

Now every once in a while we see a person so naturally amazing that even developing one aspect (such ashearing music through life recreating parts of melodies recombining different combinations)
They seem better than others around them
But the thing is once they develop the other areas as well
( Including area of " how music works ")
They are going to seem better than anyone around them
( 10 times or more better than before they gained knowledge)

It truely us such a rare thing to meet one of these people , such a gift to know them very around them .if you meet one in life get everything you can pickup from then let them inspire you in everyway possible )

 

For some reason i sometimes have a better idea of how to do some parts of a existing song better, it kind a pops up in my head instantly when hearing the orginale song the first time, IF that happens, then i already know its much better than the original song, unforunately its only 2-4 bars (drums etc), it could be anything in the song, then the later changed parts in the song comes of thinking about it
This is the way i get started with a song

 

You can do all of this within the framework of chords and scales, in fact I do it all the time. You can't escape the rules of musical intervals, even if you are not aware that you are using them. Same with the tonic and the dominant, they are always present in all music.

Musical notation serves the same purpose as the alphabet, and chords and scales are the vocabulary and grammar. You can speak without knowing them, but they are always there.

 

Damn I really couldn’t have said it better! Great post

 

Yes it does, your definition of how things work is skewed to reflect the bias of your beliefs. I already listed but a few of a very many notable artists who do not adhere to your rules. Not everyone needs umpteen years to achieve proficiency or greatness in their medium of expression. They can become even greater given more time, but as shown can reach high levels of master ship early in their lives. Being an artist is an organic process that needs a strong foundation of native talent to build upon. Just because someone does something for 40 years does in no way mean that they are good at something if they have not the innate talent to begin with. You must take that into account in any argument to have it stand up to scrutiny.

False, if for no other reason of the vagueness of "other aspects of musicianship" . In the case of my classmate, he was notating and arranging for a 12 piece jazz band and it was awesome to watch him scribe dots and dashes as if he was writing a short story.

Two words...Billy Eilish. Why couldn't her album be good enough for you as it is. Why could not a 16 kid move you to tears or blow you away with her poetry, delivery and perspective, because she hasn't been at it long enough?

I find it odd that you cannot seem to alter your stance given these examples.

About how I get an idea down? There are different ways. I have had a few songs write themselves, both the music and lyrics at the same time which were magical experiences. Many times I put myself on a very noisy, cachaphonic environment which has the strange effect of helping pinpoint and focus on my inner voice which enables me to hone in on song lyrics and pure poetry for poetry's sake. Or I have been known to sing while walking around in the forest, desert or in resonant spaces such as tunnels or empty churches and tune into a melody, hoping that I remember to hit the record button on my phone to catch it for latter. Or even then, start banging on anything in front of me, picking up the nearest guitar within reach (they are a few in a few rooms of our house for when the mood strikes) or sitting down at the piano and just starting to play to see what melody comes down. Orrrrrr, sitting down at the computer, initiating a DAW, throwing up a synth and riff off of a sound. There is no one way for me and all have been viable means of creating a song.