Again, Question about harmonics!

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by MaXe, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. MaXe

    MaXe Kapellmeister

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    So if you know what it sounds like, what can you do? Ok. Although hearing it is not related to the question, let's see what you can do if your ears hear what is on the spectrum. Here you go:
    https://clyp.it/ahxueisu
    and it does sound musical with that bare spectrum content! Surely it is edited.
     
  2. ( . ) ( . )

    ( . ) ( . ) Audiosexual

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    It is not edited, that is the natural harmonic spectrum of a violin.

    See this article:

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spectrogram_of_violin.png

    A violin has a clean seperation between its harmonics because that is the nature of the way stringed instruments flow in their audio and sound. And the spectrogram just gives visual proof of the way a violins harmonics flow over time.

    Stringed instruments are usually rich with harmonic content.

    Check out other examples of harp and guitar:

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Spectrograms-of-the-harp-signal_fig4_286379681

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure...tificial-reverberation-Art-Rev_fig1_234136442

    The engineer did not go that deep into engineering the mix. He doesn't have to mess that deep with the harmonics of an acoustic instrument. That would be foolish! You would rather leave the natural harmonics of a rich real world instrument like a violin as it is and not mess with it, because it already has an amazingly powerful sound...

    No engineer (especially if they are on a time budget and working on a deadline) will mess that deep into an audio spectrum... and there really isn't a popular tool to do that since no one really does it or needs to do it... or else everyone would be talking about it and it would be a popular tool and technique.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  3. Lieglein

    Lieglein Audiosexual

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    Yes, with reverb mostly.
    You can hear that it is just a very clear and defined sound. Why does this implement that something has been chosen specific?

    I do not know why because of something sounds musical there has to be a complex spectrum going on. :dunno:
    My violin example also sounds musical to me. :hahaha:

    You can probably recreate this with a celesta and get a similar spectrum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  4. Lieglein

    Lieglein Audiosexual

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    Correct. You can not simply remove harmonics of an acoustic instrument and get a better sound. The instrument builders and the people who do orchestration since the 15th century already do know very well what they're doing. :yes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  5. ( . ) ( . )

    ( . ) ( . ) Audiosexual

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    Also to add,

    You can't just simply remove or add harmonics and get something good out of it. What your affecting is detail more so than frequency. You can't just 'add' detail into sound from nowhere you can only do that very mildy using saturators and transient designers blah blah. But when you go overboard with those effects you end up getting a very ugly, fake, digital sound that is too rich (like eating something that has waaay too much sugar).

    Removing detail doesn't help either. You're just removing audio quality...

    No standard audio engineer really needs to problem solve and manipulate at this resolution and if they do, then there is a problem with their audio and they need to use another instrument or source as @KungPaoFist said.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  6. KungPaoFist

    KungPaoFist Audiosexual

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    I didn't say anything about film composition? Stop the confusion :deep_facepalm:
     
  7. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    Chords. Notes. They all have their own frequencies, harmonics etc.
    Clicks as defect sounds, or clicks of drum kick are vertical lines. So it is normal.
    Knowing notes and their frequencies, you can detect what chords and notes are played, by looking on these sonograms and even not listening the sound at all.
     
  8. TaxiDriver

    TaxiDriver Platinum Record

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    If you just (re)play a piece of that piano clyp without any further processing (not even a lo-cut) it comes out like this:



    I think it's clean enough.. which comes at no surprise to me. But may have misundertood the Q
     
  9. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

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    There are less instruments playing, less FX, and the instruments are tonal , so you will see more blackness. It's that simple.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  10. Satai

    Satai Rock Star

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    I didn't have an answer for the question, but here's a workflow tip.

    In RX, use the brush to select the first harmonic manually, then switch to the magic wand tool and click inside the selection you made. It will try to select more harmonics based on the selected fundamental tone.

    There's a harmonic number tool as well next to the magic wand, which is used to tune which harmonics you want or not.
     
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  11. Riot7

    Riot7 Platinum Record

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    Stop looking at spectrograms. It's not good for you.
     
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  12. notsoloud

    notsoloud Guest

    It's sound! Not a painting. You might as well be looking at the grooves in a vinyl record with a microscope and shouting at us because we can't tell you what sound it is making.
     
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  13. Grok

    Grok Producer

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    I'm too tired to read all the thread.
    But, if you want to "make space" in a sound A for [better hearing / unmasking] a sound B (knowing you'll be mixing sounds A + B), use SpectraLayers.
     
  14. MaXe

    MaXe Kapellmeister

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    Indeed, there is a better tool for doing such stuff. It even features a piano roll on spectrum of signal so you can make note identifying workflow faster. Unfortunately, it is not YET available for windows.
    Here is the link:
    https://audionamix.com/technology/adx-trax-pro-sp/
     
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  15. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    If you already have RX7 Advanced then you've got tons of FFT optimization tools available.
     
  16. amadeusex

    amadeusex Ultrasonic

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    The spectrogram looks 'clean' mostly because of proper Orchestration in combination with good performance (played in tune) and the lack of reverb.
    Also when dealing with audio use Your ears - listening with Your eyes can be deceptive.
     
  17. babuk

    babuk Producer

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    You will edit those harmonics like i will edit my fingerprints. Sure, I can chop them with a knife, but will it look like a finger anymore?
     
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  18. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

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    It's not really for making space tho.

    waves factory TRACKSPACER is for making space (on the macro scale), but you can mimic that with any parametric EQ.
     
  19. DoubleTake

    DoubleTake Audiosexual

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    I will say no more. I will not offer information on film composition. I will not offer plugins I have rarely used.
    I will not digress from the main question.
     
  20. notsoloud

    notsoloud Guest

    ....and this is exactly why producer Glyn Johns won't allow a computer screen anywhere near a studio where he's working. What we all should be doing primarily, is listening, not watching waveforms to tell us - for example - if a vocalist just delivered a flawless performance. I don't judge a sounds characteristics with anything but my ears. Would anybody discard a beautiful sounding piano recording because it looked odd on a screen? I don't care what it looks like....scooped or humped or with a twist of lemon, what does it sound like? I am a musician not an audiologist.
     
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