This is going to be hard for me to explain so please bear with me guys...

I'm doing subtractive eq to clean up some unwanted frequencies. From what I understand I have to apply makeup gain. I have to admit as a novice I'm finding it very hard to do by ear. Naturally I'm using meters for visual aid. However, even when applying changes with eq I'm finding it hard to see exactly how many dB I am loosing ( cutting -3dB with a bell curve doesn't always show as a -3dB drop on the meters). I think this may be to dynamic range, though I could be wrong!

Is there any advice I can get from the pros out here, perhaps some 'accurate' metering plugs or just a few tips to make things easier...Thanks in advance everyone

 

First the advice. Makeup gain like this is mostly done by ear. That means, if after you EQ, the part you're working on sounds just fine to you in the mix, then don't worry about any makeup gains. Easy peasy beautiful, cover girl.

If it started sounding kind of low, that's where you gently boost it till it sounds more or less how it was before you EQ'ed it. Small changes in gain ARE difficult to hear, so don't kick yourself for not hearing it. The good news is that it's not a big deal, if it's sounding fine to you, it is fine. Even if you forget to do the makeup gain, you will probably turn up that fader down the line while mixing if it is sounding low, and problem solved.

I recommend the EQs by TDR (Tokyo Dawn Labs). Great EQs with many versatile features, and the makeup gain is automatic. It even adjusts it as you adjust the EQ, so you hear the impact of EQing, not of the volume change you introduce.

Btw even here with the automatic feature it's not an exact thing. The plug tries to match the volume before/after probably using an algorithm similar to the one that's behind the LU (loudness unit) measurement, trying to take into account what frequencies were changed, and how it affects percieved loudness, not just by how much. But it's still approximate and at the end of the day is not a big deal, you don't need exactness here.

 

The real quick (got an appt. to get to) is to use an eq with auto makeup gain. Off the top of my pretty little head Fab Filter, Slick and others will do that. Gotta ruuuuuun.

 

The good thing with subtractive EQ and subtractive mixing is that you don't really need make-up gain. Or at least you don't need to focus on it, unless you really want to gain up (usually with the output gain of your EQ). With additive EQ and additive mixing you are much more likey to constantly "compensate" the increase of gain by turning the output gain down, which introduces another step/obsticle when you want to work fast and in a flow. Hence why subtractive EQ is preferable.

You can simply use your level meter in your DAW to make sure your levels are healthy.

 

Last edited: Mar 25, 2019

This is going to sound really dumb, but what exactly do you mean by 'healthy' in reguards to levels? Is this about analog hardware and 'analog emulation' plugins, or just makeup gain in general? Just want to clarify

 

Just proper gain-staging, in both digital and analog. Leave some headroom at all stages. Keeping away from clipping/distorting and avoiding to gotoo low (bad SNR ratio, Signal To Noise Ratio).

In analog there is also the favorable character that you get when you drive things hot, which you might conciously choose.

 

On every track I have klanghelm VUMT (VU meter) which is my last plugin,and i use it for gain staging.It's nice because it displays VU and Full scale(dBFS) values,accurately.

 

Technically subtractive EQ or boost EQ are absolutly the same thing,But I agree,I find subtractive EQ is more logic and preferable,it's better to attenuate nasty frequencies rather than boosting nice frequencies and keeping the nasty ones.

 

If someone can tell me why he wants to boost every other frequency instead of just cutting one or the other way around, I would have a good laugh again. Especially at notch filters.

You cut if it's easier to cut and you boost if it's easier to boost.

Same goes for some people which are asserting "I rather make manual volume changes instead of compressing". I like one of them to upload a picture where one can see how he made a volume automation like a compressor does on every percussion signal in his project. This would be very funny for all of us.

You have to makeup gain if the signal where a frequency was cutted or boosted is not in a good relation to the other signals anymore. If it still fits you do not need to makeup gain.

 

Last edited: Mar 26, 2019

Yeah, I know. But I was referring to subtractive also being preferable since 1) it cures overlapping 2) you can remove frequencies competely with filters, and 3) there is no "additional" gain check needed (since overall signal is reduced, not boosted).

 

That's what I meant...

 

Last edited: Mar 26, 2019

Personnally I always apply carefully gain staging after each plugin,but maybe I shouldn't...?

 

My point is that you don't really need to focus on that (compensation) when doing subtractive EQing, which speeds up the workflow.
Gain-staging is always good. Each to their own.

 

Sure you're right,making gainstaging breaks your workflow and your inspiration,because it takes time.

 

If you ever have worked in analogue it is just something that one naturally does without really too much thought going into it. The sweet spot was the target, preamp to compressor to makeup gain to eq or any combination thereof was part of the flow.

 

Exactly. I work with SSL 4000G, API 1608, Neve preamps, etc. There you want to drive things hot sometimes and then compensate. But I feel my workflow is faster ITB the less stages I have to check. I know it's all 32bit float internal processing (with 1680dB of dynic range), but since I come from the analog realm I prefer subtractive (or a healty mix between additive and subtractive) to keep levels in check.

 

Yuppers, less stages to check gets you in the car and home before the rush hour traffic has you sitting in traffic, though you can check your mixes with the car's audio system.

 

Kinda like, if the loudest parts in the mix are gainstaged, usually drums, bass, and vocals, you don't need to worry much about other sound's level. Just make them as loud to fit in the mix nicely.

 

Alternatively a little trick that i do when i dont have a meter in the studio or monitor plugins would be to

1.grab a FET compressor (fastest attack and release time) pull the threshold down till you do a consistent -3 gain reduction.,
2.now put a EQ before that compressor but leave the compressor window on to monitor the gain reduction.
3.Dial in your Subtract your EQ to taste then adjust the output gain of the eq till the compressor hit that consistent -3 gain reduction
4.remove the compressor then you should be around the ball park of your initial gain.