I disagree,there's probably a reason if most famous mix engineers use analog summing;todays plugins are not bad but are certainly not as good as the SSL Sigma,for example.I've listened some videos where guys compare one song mixed ITB and after with analog summing and the difference is noticeable.
For sure if I had the cash and I hadn't the need of other studio equipment first,I would buy one analog summing unit,probably a Dangerous one,they are not too much expensive and are good quality from what I've heard.Tony Maserati use one dangerous unit,for example.

 

Last edited: Mar 20, 2019

Hello I'm a long time lurker and first time poster on this site and thought I'd share my experience with analog summing. I didn't really notice improvements until years after owning my own summing unit which is the Dangerous Music D-Box. My first mistake was that I didn't prepare and have outboard gear ready to cover whichever channel I wished to process. The magic to me didn't appear until adding the gear into the chain. Oh I actually did have one cheap harmonic exciter which I ended up getting rid of after realizing it wasn't getting any use. After a lot of trial and error I learned which piece of kit worked for me and which didn't. I think this is unavoidable but it's definitely worth the journey. My second mistake was using an average converter for my rig. I ended up upgrading to an Apogee Symphony. Then I recently tested the Prism Lyra 2 and stuck with it. Analog summing is not cheap. So if you're not going to invest some money into it I'd say just stick to ITB. The main reason I stick to analog summing is because of the workflow and it helps me get to my final result quicker than working ITB. Honestly when people say it "sounds better" I think that's subjective. Some things sound better OTB and some just sound better ITB. At least you have the option to do whatever you choose.

 

Analog summing and plugin summing are totally different! Not sure why people keep saying they cannot hear the difference or are the same? They are some great videos where you can clearly hear the difference. How can people say there is no difference if they never tried it? Mixing with Analog Summing gives you a wider stereo field which can be heard, much more solid low end and softer highs not so brittle. The track separation are more defined. With studio equipment having good gear goes a long way. You cannot expect having a $200 sound card and $300 analog mix to qualify as analog summing............

 

Like Andrew Scheps said "There is nothing you gain sonically mixing and summing with analog gear."

Its subjective. I have listened (Hardware) Fairchild summing, Dangerous D-Box, API console and Pultech. Sounds different but in my case I'd choose waves APEX on the master buss all day long. But Thats just me.

See some gearslutz comparison between hardware and vsts. You would be amazed.

 

Can't speak for the devices you've mentioned, though I have heard the Dangerous Audio name thrown about for summing.
I'm running my setup pretty similar to @SineWave.
I go out from the interface (MOTU HD192) into a channel on my mixing board (Mackie 24X8), and have a tube preamp (ART MPA Pro) and compressor (ART MDC 2001) as an insert on the mixer's master, then back into the interface to record the trip.
My equipment wasn't the most costly, but it's pretty decent.
When I originally tried this on my mixes, it seemed to make the sound more 3d, and there was an improvement to the separation and width. Also it added some presence.
Then I rewired everything to bounce the individual tracks each to their own channel on the mixer (my interface has 12 outputs) grouping things onto channels that made sense (guitars together, vocals together, etc.) and tried a mixdown that way. I didn't hear much improvement over simply summing through 2 channels so I reverted back to that and use it in my workflow. Also, running each channel I would have a tough time with mix recall which is something I value.
I may try doing the same thing summing through my new Behringer x-air mixer to see how it stacks up against the Mackie soon...

 

I said in my previous "I disagree,there's probably a reason if most famous mix engineers use analog summing" ,I didn't say "all mix engineers".

SSL Sigma was an example,I don't know it especially.I've listened the Dangerous D-Box and I liked it.

But when using analog summing you must process your different busses,if you only process your master track analog summing won't bring much.

When you process many bus (drums,bass,guitars,voices,FX sounds,pads,etc..according to your song) analog summing does really something.

 

Last edited: Mar 20, 2019

Sure,you're right,plugins make already a good job.
Analog summing will bring you something when you already masters composition,mixing,tracking,and all the required skills to make music,and when you already have good equipment.

If you don't master all these different tasks,I think you don't need analog summing.

And more of that,with quality plugins we have these days analog summing is not essential.

 

I'll post some audio comparison one of these days.

 

Here is a comparison. though without using a virtual summing plugin. The difference is readily apparent with the analogue summing.

 

hardware ?

 

summing like loiz lane ,yes pls......summing box , hhmm no thx

 

Last edited: Mar 21, 2019

The reason I don't mention my pedals often is because I'm a bit ashamed that I [so far] use just some cheap Boss and Akai pedals. Whatever I find for between 50-100 euro.

So far I've treated myself with Akai Deluxe Distortion and Deluxe Overdrive, Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-5, Super Shifter PS-5, Phase Shifter PH-3, Pitch-Shifter/Delay PS-3, and Overdrive/Distortion OS-2. Next I'd really like to acquire some bass pedals like ODB-3 and CEB-3, and Palmer's Pocket Bass Amp.

If I had more money, and I wish to buy these too, are Electro-Harmonix pedals like Deluxe Memory-man, POG2, Epitome, Deluxe Bass Big Muff, Voxbox and V256 Vocoder, and all of the Moogerfooger pedals, of course!

I'm only after true analogue pedals, well - mostly. Some vintage digital pedals could sound interesting, too. Like those BBD ones.

 

Im sorry but that's nonsense.

If you dont push to hard on an analog mixer you dont get distortion..
Big analog desk's can be extreem clean.

I agree that transistors and preamps add flavour but its not all about adding distortion.
Transistors and pre-amps can be very clean.

If you drive the gain in to a Studer of any kind or what tape machine and you will hear it.. even on an well maintained & calibrate Studer or what ever.

 

If you own a couple of quality preamps, you can get something similar to an analog summing box by reamping through preamps.
I've done it many times and it works great.

For example, I'll finish tracking and arranging all of the tracks (vst instruments) that aren't already tracked through preamps and before the final bounce, I'll reamp them through a RNDI-S and choose which preamp I want to go through. E.g. I'll use Great River ME-1NV for synth basses, kicks, snares etc. Isa Two for stereo synths, pads, strings... you get the picture.

What you end up in the end is a wider stereo image and fuller, cohesive sound before even going to the mixing stage, ofc assuming that you've done the gain staging right and panned everything properly.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2019

Don't be ashamed of that,I loved Boss in the past,they made affordable products but always nice sounding;at least for my ears.If I remember correctly it was a Roland's brand,like Edirol,which made good products too.But I didn't know Akai made pedals,thanks for the info!

 

It's the same thing I discovered, that summing in the mixer is not really worth it, but running tracks and recording through it is.

 

Thanks, mate. But yes, these Boss pedals, no matter how cheap, sound great! Being able to combine them in any configuration you can think of, and then the pleasure of tweaking the knobs in real time and recording it, is so worth it! The infinite resolution of analogue equipment... it sounds really nice, and it takes some skill, too. One of the reasons I'd so like to see MIDI v2.0 come to fruition. But for now... these will do just fine. More than fine!

And if you're looking for some really good sounding pedals, just go to Electro-Harmonix com. There are some really HQ thingies there!

Just keep in mind [this is actually obvious... ] that for processing bass and drums you will need the bass pedals. I made a mistake by not buying those first. Guitar pedals usually [always?] cut off lows, and I do like to distort bass and drums, primarily.

Cheers!

p.s. sorry for the off-topic, guys. But we are discussing analogue stuff here anyway... so maybe someone will find it useful. ;)

 

Last edited: Mar 25, 2019

i did make that mistake but The-RoBoT did told me heh heh...

 

Last edited: Mar 25, 2019

Nebula also expects - 18dB VU gain staging with peaks -8/10 dB ... more stricter, unforgiving than algorythmical plugins i would say

So -18dB in yr single tracks , but then in the buss also - 18dB if you use nebula in the master buss

Maybe this helps in the discussion, fyi
not sure one or the other is better ... the summing in se
as many point out, it's the saturation, the colorisation, phase shifts
that make the difference, not the summing at the core ...

 

Last edited: Jan 19, 2024

Don't buy this, I had it, it's really bad. Eq are bad, distortion is bad... Sound is weak.
Or at least try it before.

Pedals are like ingredients for a sauce. Ingredients can be cheap doesn't matter, as it's how you mix them that does the great sauce.

We should create a thread about pedals that can be used with synths...

 

Last edited: Jan 19, 2024