An Empirical Study of File-System Fragmentation in Mobile StorageSystems
https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/hotstorage16/hotstorage16_ji.pdf
https://blog.oo-software.com/en/new...imize-ssds-and-hdds-with-the-new-solid-method
https://download.raxco.com/perfectdisk-ssd-storage
https://malwaretips.com/threads/just-another-ssd-defrag-test.88693/

 

Yeah, the famous W10 updates. Had an interesting debate about it recently in another topic here.
Since I'm a veteran web developer when I hear "fuck MSoft" the first thing I remember is web designers (and some developers like me but in a way smaller degree) literally losing it trying to make the infamous Internet Explorer 5 (6 too) render correctly a basic HTML page.

I mean it, literally losing it. And totally justified. I'm auto-censoring myself to not to put examples, it could hurt sensibilities

 

If you have an Atari 1040St laying around let me knowIm fed up with microfuck problems too. The other day a freaking remote install took 3 days. Im seriously considering on just using my W7 until one day the developers decide to support Linux. If people were making excellent music during the 80s and 90s with what existed at the time why cant we keep on making music for 10 more years with what we currently have?

 

@SineWave

Yay! My second computer after the 520! With Pro-24. And an S900, Juno 106. Good times!

 

Easy: we are too busy fighting Windows/Mac OS/DAWs problems to waste time doing music. Hell yeah, I'm the man...

 

So many strange description in that post.
1. First of all and take it seriously: using defrag software on Mac OS is odd, not useful and you can harm your data!!!
Have you ever seen defrag option in Disk Utility on OSX? No. Why not? there are reasons for that! Don't do it! It's not Windows, it's a mac.

2. You mentioned later on that this is a system drive that you wished to clone. So I recommend you to do a backup (it can be with Time Machine, not necessary using CCC), install the OS from scratch on the new SSD (connected in an external case) and there is a step during the install process when you can choose your time machine backup to migrate your stuff. After that you have a fresh system drive with all of your old data untouched. Except Java that you need to download and reinstall if you need it. That's all!
If you don't have another spare hard drive where to save the backup (bad boy, you should always have one and you should always do backup from your system drive), you can try to migrate the data from your old drive during the install process.
Cloning old drives to SSD can always be frustrating if the old partition was bigger than the new one, in this case mac can complain, even with cloning software that advertise the ability to do so.

Before doing a backup I always delete the content of the Caches folder in the user-specific Library location. Don't worry, when you ask to empty trash, it doesn't let you delete some sensitive files that are running, you just let the mac delete the other files and put these few blocked files back to their original location.
And if you happen to use the official Mail app and have opened many attachments in the past, you should check the size of the Mail Downloads folder on this location: your user-specific Library/Containers/com.apple.mail/Data/Library ...and if it's too big, delete it's content. If you sometimes open attachment documents and save them after having modified them without defining a new location, in this case be aware of these files not to be deleted from this location.

One more thing to understand, but it's not primarily for this case. On mac, if you choose to copy data from one disk to another, it will always do this process in the right order, therefore it's physically impossible to be fragmented. On the other hand, if you clone drives, unfortunately everything will be put in the order of the original disk. But as I stated at the beginning, it's fine on a mac. Even on a windows system it wouldn't matter on an SSD!

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2019

So many strange assumptions about me and my knowledge in that post! lol
I'm sure you are trying to be helpful, though. Thanks for caring enough to post.

1. There is an onboard defragging with Mac OS for HDDs, but it's rubbish and doesn't work beyond a certain usage of drive capacity. Or so it seems.
I've not met another's Mac that wasn't fragmented.

2. I'm aware of this. There is a reason why that is not an option in this case.
<sigh> No; I'm actually a good boy. At least in regards spare drives & backups!

If I'm to take your first point "seriously" as you requested, I would very much like you to *explain* why it is "odd, not useful", and can harm data, please. I, and many other Mac users I know obviously need to know about this. I have never experienced any problems over the years, across many changes of OS.

edit: Oh, and I'm intigued as to what are my "many strange description" in my original post?

 

Yes, I meant to help with my comment.
The story you wrote in your first post was a strange description, it didn't criticize you but that stupid 3rd-party software you insist to use because you think/heard from someone that mac hdd needs to be defragmented. And NO, there is no official app by Apple on macOS (earlier called OSX) that has defrag option. Only in older mac OS versions about 20-25 years ago that used different file system!
I'm not a computer scientist, just someone who has been working with macs for over 25 years. You don't have to believe me, so I rather give you a more authentic link:
https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac/how-defrag-mac-why-you-dont-need-3600241/
It states the possibility to defrag in rare cases but that's just an overkill/overreaction of the issue, kind of rather a psychological solution.

Why is that your defrag software needs more then 100GB of free space on a disk that you want to defrag? Ask yourself, and you will understand why I said it can harm your data.
Btw, you mentioned that you had needed to compact files to free some space. Why didn't you just move does files to another drive?
I still can't understand why you don't go the easy root and do a clean OS install and migrate your system drive's data?
What kind of files are on that system drive that you rather tried to compact instead of save it elsewhere during the migration to the SSD?
It must have taken quite a significant time for you trying several times with that defrag app. I'm just sayin'...

 

Listen. My original question was answered by @Plendix, like, 4 questions in. Chill. Don't know why you are so full-on about nothing.
I know you don't understand, but I explained to you that your easy way is not an option. So again, chill out.
The answer to your second paragraph:

It was fine after I restarted the defrag software. Not as big a deal as you are making out.
Please "ask *yourself*" what you are trying to imply.

I too have been using Macs for 20 years.
Incidentally, the clone is being made from a 10.6.8 system, for reasons I don't need to explain. Because my original question was answered, as you could have read. But you seem to want to be all high and mighty about something. Just sayin'.

Either way, thank you for your time and intentions. I do appreciate the sentiment.

edit: @jazzzz Btw, compacting free space with CCC is just shifting all data together without defragging. I don't know what you mean when you say "compacting system files". Sounds dangerous.
So, as requested by you, I "asked myself"...and no; I do not understand why you said it can harm data. Please explain, if you can.

 

Last edited: Mar 3, 2019

@The Pirate
On inspecting older alignment of drives, it would seem that all OS's I've used have dealt with that! Or maybe CCC too.
Plus it seems like a very, very old 'problem' that you mention, from 10+years ago, according to MacRumours site and others.
I thank you for your time, and especially your nice attitude.

 

NO lol. You are wrong. This is what I mean.
Quote from MacWorld UK:

Macs don't generally need to be defragged. This is simply because the macOS file system was designed differently to Microsoft's, and it automatically defragments files on its own. The process is otherwise known as Hot File Adaptive Clustering (HFC).

That's not to say that a manual defrag is never needed; it's just rare. People (usually creatives) that have hundreds of films/audio/multimedia files larger than 1GB may need to defrag a Mac. The HDD also has to be pretty old to merit a defrag, as performance deteriorates over time.

So there you go. I thank you.

Btw, compacting free space with CCC is just shifting all data together without defragging. I don't know what you mean when you say "compacting system files". Sounds dangerous.
So, as requested by you, I "asked myself"...and no; I do not understand why you said it can harm data. Please explain, if you can.

edit: MacWorld UK recommended iDefrag; it won Editors choice!
...aaand the Genius Bar at Apple use a more expensive defragger to defrag for customers.

Do you feel silly now?

 

Last edited: Mar 3, 2019

Your ignorant attitude is a bigger harm for your data and makes it difficult to assist you.
Unfortunately, you haven't explained anything that I pointed out and asked.
The link I posted to you says clearly that it's unnecessary to thing about defragmenting a mac drive, as the system itself works automatically on any possible issue. That site recommended that shitty iDefrag software long ago and they felt important to emphasize that they don't claim this anymore for the current versions. And Genius Bar uses another software that is not a defragger at all, it's a diagnostic app that just has an additional feature for this matter to defrag. But it's not necessary for end users.
Just because someone creates an app with a function, it doesn't prove its usefulness. Just like the f*cking mackeeper app. It also has won awards and recommendations, even if it's the major scam of mac history.
Or you can also use one of those apps of the likes of Memory Cleaner. Just because Adobe sucks and users are lazy to reopen their app during their working day. But it doesn't mean it's useful or safe.

- Why is it a problem to reinstall 10.6.8 and migrate the data from TM? (I have done that on an old iBook when replaced the old hdd with ssd)
Btw, on that system version, using SSD you will need Trim Enabler app which had been a free app for that version until the developer stopped maintaining it available. Either you get it from warez or purchase the new version.
- Why is it a problem for you to save big sized media files on another drive? And why do you store those big files on a system drive anyway?
- why do you have the worry about fragmentation anyway? Is there any performance issue that you have faced recently that drove you to the conclusion (or rather conviction) that it happens due to a fragmented drive?

You didn't realize that the link I showed you included a part that speaks about the ssds not having fragmentation issues, thus your concern is of the past.

Silly is as silly does.

 

@jazzzz Hey there buddy.

It was all just down to time=money, right now. It was a colleague's drive that had Logic 9 updated to 9.1.8 via all the Software Update bundles that Apple put out, and I remember how long all that took to do back then!
Myself, I'm already on Sierra and happy with that.
Of course, I totally agree with you re. reinstall 10.6.8 and migrate. But as I said; time was an issue.
Yes; agreed re. Mackeeper et al. Thanks for reminding me about Trim Enabler; didn't realise it was still gettable out there. Useful to know.
Myself, I use an external scratch disk for recording, and external Library drive. OS drive purely for software. Drive I cloned wasn't as pure!
I don't 'worry' about defragmentation, but have always seen it although never experienced any performance issue; true.
So we 'are' agreed now on one thing; the OS *should* work "automatically on any possible issue" - your quote. You can see how you misunderstood what I was saying regards this. (I have noticed you might not always read comments too succinctly. Another example is when a post mentioned "cracked Spitfire Lib", and "legit Chris Hein Lib"; you read it differently. I felt the OP was under illusion.)
I have worked, and still do, with big name producers who would defrag Macs. So I admit, it's more due to that. True, these producers aren't always as knowledgable about computers!

I'm certain I would have read any links you may have put, and I am aware that SSDs don't have defrag issues lol. Don't jump to assumptions so much, bro/sis!
As mentioned, original Q was answered a few comments in. The Q being due to not wanting to defrag in the first place!
And sorry, but I feel any view on me being ignorant is just a reflection. You are very heavy-handed and assume a lot. I also don't appreciate profanity.
I am able to admit I may not always be correct though, and I was just hoping that you would be, too.

Anyways. Yet another friend and colleague has died rather young, so I am once again sobered and humbled; enough to say thank you for your time and energy regards all this, and I hope we shall get along fine in the future. I don't judge you from anything in this thread, and I am aware of your bigger picture via other posts, and don't carry any evaluations/judgements of people generally. I hope you can afford that of me too.

Again, thanks.