Turn jazz theory into real music FREE

Discussion in 'Education' started by MMJ2017, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Next we are going to look at the 2 Bebop scales to use for each key

    In C major this is C major Bebop cdefgg#ab
    And G7 Bebop gabcdeff#g

    The way these are used is to start on a chord tone and descending you get a chord tone on the strong beat . The Bebop scales are for traveling scalewise with your Melody .
    Let's begin with the c maj Bebop on the c note descending c to c
    Cbag#gfedc
    See how we have chord tones on the strong beat
    The tones outline c6 cega
    We can start from any of them and travel scale wise descending
    Ag#gfedcba
    G
    fedcbag#g
    E
    dcbag#gfe

    These scales fit over our I ,III,vi chord
    Cegb
    Egbd
    Aceg

    Next up is our G7 Bebop scale
    Gf#fedcbag
    F
    edcbagf#f
    D
    cbagf#fed
    B
    agf#fedcb

    These scales fit over our
    Two, four,v,vii chords of the key
    Dfac
    Face
    Gbdf
    Bdfa


    A normal use of Bebop scales is arpreggio up Bebop down patterns
    Here is an example in key of c using 8th notes with pattern of 12121212

    First we play individual notes d f a c up
    Then descending starting on the b note
    Bagf#fedcbdfa
    See when we get to the octave below b we do bmin7flat5 arpreggio up
    Whole thing so far
    Dfacbagf#fedcbdfa
    Now descending g to g
    Gf#fedcbag
    Then we continue down f#face and a fmaj7 face ascending at the end

    Here is entire line

    Dfacbagf#fedcbdfagf#fedcbagf#face
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  2. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    We combine Bebop scales with arpreggio and enclousures along with triplets and rests to create compelling powerful melodies
     
  3. 23322332

    23322332 Rock Star

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    351
    There are 16 limited transposition scales (including chords) that can be used for modulations or motivic transposition in 12 ET. It's not like the whole tone scale, diminished or augmented is the only thing that is useful.

    My take on jazz - or what casual listeners understand as jazz - get some blues fakebooks, use irregular scales that have a good mix of major and minor third degrees (or sixths), also tritones. Play triplets or swung notes, add some woodwinds, brass and piano and you are done. The whole later development with extension chords etc is better explained in any university level textbook on romantic harmony, because there is where the jazz arrangers got all these flavours. MMJ's simplifications will never explain stuff like Wagner who is basically the granddaddy of extended chords and uses the whole chromatic freely.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  4. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Do not know what you are arguing against . I guess you have not looked at the material, or do not understand what is being presented in order for you to say what you just have said. Either way it would be up to you to make a descision to dig deeper than the surface level understanding you just demonstrated fine sir. I hope you dig deeper it opens up a lot when you are able.
     
  5. EddieXx

    EddieXx Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    761

    I truly enjoy this metaphors, to me at least they really start and fuel mental processes. will see if if I find more with this gentleman. thanks for the post
     
  6. 23322332

    23322332 Rock Star

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    351
    The problem with MMJ is that he doesn't explain why anything or how anything works in practice and why there exist such deviations between theory and practice.
    Here is you are some pictures on symmetries of 12 Edo (some of which were already mentioned) that can be useful for transposition/modulations or source material for compositions (late Coltrane makes a big use of some of these for example).

    1.jpg 2.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  7. EddieXx

    EddieXx Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    761
    well instead of saying that there is a "problem" with a purely positive member, just do what you do and post a great reply. no need in putting down the op when one can just add, just like you did. :). thanks btw
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  8. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    First, I did nothing particular to playing instruments in any fashon. I spoke in pure notes the 12 notes we all use . Everything I have said is applicable with anything that can play 12 notes whether singing , or punching noted in your synth piano roll one note at a time or playing live piano guitar or saxophone or cornet.
    Second your surprised I talk about jazz instead of classical music given the thread title?
     
  9. Olymoon

    Olymoon Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    5,777
    Likes Received:
    4,445
    All useless comments cleared.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  10. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Next we are going to talk about basslines.
    Although a rare occasion you might treat a bass instrument structurally the same as any other, most of the time the bass places a distinct specific role in outlining the roots and chord tones as to provide a rich foundation.
    It is iportant for you to know and understand how the bass works even if it is not your primary instrument or job.

    The bass moves stepwise and leapwise broken up similar to a Melody or line however you want the bass to create a fat layer which your 3rds and 7ths sit comfortably on top of.
    Stepwise.

    To move by step is to move in increments of semi tone or tone based on your chord structure .
    To move leapwise is to travel in increments of a minor 3rd or larger upto an octave.
    Let's see a few basic options for how this can be done in the music.
    Typically we will have the bass move in quarter notes, now image we have our written sheet music as a ii v I progression in c major

    For our quarter notes this gives us 1234,1234,1234,1234

    Our main structure is dface dmin7, for 1234, gbdfa g7, for 1234 and acegbd cmaj7 for 1234,1234

    Now we are going to take first bar of 1234 in dmin7
    Let's start on the d note and move
    D e f a
    See how we have a pattern of 1235? The 2 is a 9th
    Now let's look at our second section for g7 g a b d

    Now we want to smoothly connect the 2 parts
    What we can do is the note before the beggining of second bar becomes a leading tone.
    D e f g# g a b d

    Or in this case becuase it is so short you could leave it as

    D e f a g a b d
    Another version would be make straight line
    D e f a b d f g

    Let's look at an example of having dmin7 chord our ii chord last for 4 bars in other words quarter notes 1234,1234,1234,1234

    This makes it longer to see what we can do in those instances

    D e f a c d e f a c d e
    Another example is
    F a c d e f a c d f a c
    Another is
    C d e f a c d e f a c e
    Another is
    A c d e f a c d e f a c
    Another is
    E f a c d e f a c d e f

    Let's try same thing but this time with g7

    G a b d f g a b d f g a
    Another version
    A b d f g a b d f g a b
    Another
    B d f g a b d f g d f g
    Or
    D f g a b d f g a b d f

    Let's try same thing with cmaj7
    C d e g a b c d e g a b
    Or
    D e g a b c e g a b c d
    Or
    E g a b c d e g a b c d

    So you see we have many options for expression with even simple forward motions.

    The same works for moving backwards descending.

    Take dmin7
    C a f e d c a f e d c a
    Or
    F e d c a f e d c a f e

    Take g7

    F d b a g f d b a g f d
    Or
    A g f d b a g f d b a g

    How about cmaj7

    C b a g e d c b a g e d
    Or
    G e d c b a g e d c b a
    Or
    E d c b a g e d c b a g
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  11. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Next we are going to make a reference chart for our chords before we get into connecting chords and keys.

    We will start with the dominant chord
    Dfac gbdfa g# a# c# d# dim7 bdfg#
    D#f#a#c# g#cd#f#a# a b d e dim7 cd#f#a
    Egbd ac#egb a# c d# f dim7 c#ega#
    Fg#cd# a#dfg#c b c# e f# dim dfg#b
    F#ac#e bd#f#ac# c d f g dim d#f#ac
    Ga#df cega#d c# d# f# g# dim ega#c#
    G#bd#f# c#fg#bd# d e g a dim7 fg#bd
    Aceg df#ace d# f g# a# dim7 f#acd#
    A#c#fg# d#ga#c#f e f# a b dim7 ga#c#e
    Bdf#a eg#bdf# f g a# c dim7 g#bdf
    Cd#ga# facd#g f# g# c# dim7 acd#f#
    C#eg#b f#a#c#eg# g a d dim7 a#c#eg
    Dfac gbdfa g# a# d# dim7 bdfg#
     
  12. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    What we see is that in the chromatic scale ( all keys)
    We have 3 diminished 7th chords
    Bdfg#
    Cd#f#a
    C#ega#

    Each one literally is 4 dominant7flat9 rootless chords
    There is a special quality of the diminished which is that the chord you follow it determines which dom7 chord your ear makes it out to be .

    For example let's take bdim7 bdfg#
    This dim7 chord is literally
    A#7b9 rootless
    C#7b9 rootless
    E7b9 .rootless
    G7b9 rootless

    The dim7 is NOT similar to these 4 dom7 , no it literally actually IS those 4 chords.

    Let's see how the chord which we follow with determines how our ear makes out the dim7
    We are going to take b dim7 bdfg#
    And resolve it to the major chord tonic key which the 4 dom7 chords belong to .
    1. Bdfg# to cegb
    2. Bdfg# to d#ga#d
    3.bdfg# to f#a#c#f
    4 bdfg# to ac#eg#
    Play these to hear them

    Next we will do the same thing for the minor chord which is the relative tonic which belongs to the key of the 4 dom7 chords contained in the dim7

    1.bdfg# to aceg
    2bdfg# to cd#ga#
    3.bdfg# to .d#f#a#c#
    4 bdfg# . To .f#ac#e

    Now listen for yourself how in these 8 distinct examples.



    The next chord which has built in multiple chords and functions embedded is the major 6th chord.

    If we take the key of c major and great a major 6th chord from the tonic we get
    C major 6th or C6. Cega
    Now interestingly this chord is also
    Aminor7 ( relative minor tonic I chord) Aceg

    This means that depending which chord precedes our C6 or maj6th , will determine how we hear it as well as how it functions.

    Gbdf to cega
    Eg#bd. To . Cega

    In the first instance we are playing G7 to cmaj
    In second we are playing E7 to aminor





    Next we have another which like the last 2 which has more than one chord and function embedded inside of it
    Bmin7b5 bdfa
    Dminor6. Dfab

    Like before Bmin7flat5 BDFA
    And Dminor 6th DFAB

    If we use it like a vii% chord

    1. Dfab to . Cegb

    Or use like a I chord

    Ac#eg .To dfab
     
  13. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Now that we have seen these chords which contains other chords inside of them and we have looked at the different resolutions and functions we can get out of using them one at a time, what happens when we use them together?

    Let's take the structure
    G7 , Cmaj , E7 Amin

    Bdfg# to cega , Bdfg# cega

    How about Amin ii v I ?

    Bdfa , bdfg#, acef# ( amin6)

    Now in the instance of c major ii V I

    Dfac . Dfg#b , Cega
     
  14. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    We are going to dig into 2 main forms and see what branches out from them.

    Part 1 Diminished 7th
    ........

    Bdim7

    Bdfg#

    We take last note sharpen

    Bdfa. Bmin7flat5

    Last note flatten
    Bdfg# becomes bdfg G7

    Here what we have
    Bdfg . G7
    Bdfg# . Bdim7
    Bdfa. Dmin6 ( or Bmin7flat5)


    Next we are going to take C6

    Cega. Amin7 ( Cmaj6 .C6

    Sharpen last note Cega# ( C7)
    Sharpen last note again Cegb C maj7

    Here what we have now

    Cega. Amin7 C6
    Cega#. C7 dominant
    Cegb. C major7


    Now pair the two together


    Bdfg . G7
    Bdfg#. Ddim7 bdim7
    Bdfa . Dmin6 Bmin7flat5
    .............
    Cega . C6. Amin7
    Cega# . C7. Dom7
    Cegb. Cmajor7


    In each instance we are starting from our tension form ( dim) or our relaxed form ( tonic)
    And by altering chromatically we branch out to other chords.
    Finally we pair the appropriate chord functions together .

    Imagine we have a part it's C major key
    And a ii V I section in other words.
    Dmin7. G7 Cmaj

    First we choose our Dmin7 F6
    Facd
    Next we choose our D dim7 shape
    Dfg#b
    Last we choose our C6 shape
    Cega

    Putting these 3 together let's see our branches

    Fabd . Dmin6
    Facd . Dmin7. ( F6. Fmaj6
    Facd#. F7 dominant 7
    Face. ..Fmaj7
    ..........................
    Bdfg . G7 dominant 7
    Bdfg# . Bdim7,ddim7,fdim7,g#dim7
    Bdfa. Bmin7flat5. Dminor6th
    ............................
    Cef#a . Amin6 . ( F#min7flat5)
    Cega . Amin7 ( C6 Cmajor6
    Cega#. C7 dominant 7
    Cegb . Cmajor7
     
  15. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Let's take another look at b dim7

    B . D. F . G#

    What happens if we can visualize the notes before and after each of the chord ?


    A#. C# . E . G
    B. D . F . G#
    C. E. F# . A

    What we have is 3 dim7 chords.
    More importantly look close you have the entire chromatic scale .
     
  16. wouala woualouf

    wouala woualouf Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    240
    Sorry, OP,
    but if you lost all that time and batteries just to try to impress us, with some music theory made for 6yo kids, let me tell you, we're not impressed AT ALL.
    WHY ?
    Because unlike you, we have learned from the best.
    On the next video, we can see one of our tutors finalizing
    the new program that only the best music schools in the world are going to teach:

     
  17. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    http://m.dreammoods.com/?url=http:/...htm&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/#2758
     
  18. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
  19. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Now going back to the dim7


    From the perspective of Cmajor key V chord G7

    B d f g
    B d f g#
    B d f a

    From the perspective of D# major V chord A#7

    A# d f g#
    B d f g#
    C D. F g#

    From the perspective of F#maj V chord C#7

    C# f g# b
    D f .g#. B
    D# f g# .B

    From the perspective of AMaj V chord E7

    E. G# .b .d
    F .g#. B .d
    F# g# b d


    Now combining them all together from bdim7 perspective


    A# .c# .e. G
    B. D. F . G#
    C . D# .f# . a
     
  20. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Regarding the Bdim7 b d f g#
    Next expanding the dim7 into all of it's dominants resolving to one of the major keys.

    We know G7 is contained within bdim7.
    We also know it is packaged with
    Bdim7 , G7 , Bmin7flat5 ( D min6 )

    Ex.
    Bdfg
    Bdfg#
    Bdfa

    We see this on the right hand side.

    Now as we already know that these 3 chords resolve to Cmajor or C6 or Amin7
    Aceg

    Ex.

    Bdfg to Cega
    Bdfg# Cega
    BdfA . Cega

    And we also know that the Bdim7 contains 3 other dim7, dom7, min7flat5
    A#dfg#
    B dfg#
    Cdfg#

    Bc#fg#
    Bdfg#
    Bd#fg#

    Bdeg#
    Bdfg#
    Bdf#g#


    And we know that as with g7 to Cmajor
    That these 3 sets resolve to their own major keys.

    However even more exciting is that all 4 sets of dim,dom7,min7flat5 ALL also resolve to Cmajor .
    (Not only that but each one of the 4 major keys )

    Let's see how this works.
     
Loading...
Loading...