I´m not enough old to be judge, but in my lifetime there´s been huge changes in climate and nature(call me whatever). But in my country there´s been so many changes lately, like 20 celsius now, when there used to be first snow in late 80´s. I´ve attach the interview only to show how stupid anyones government can be, the point being , What the fuck political has to do with science, you can try to control science with politics, but it doesn´t change the facts. Warm up!


Interview:

President Donald Trump: I'm not denying climate change. But it could very well go back. You know, we're talkin' about over a millions--

Lesley Stahl: But that's denying it.

President Donald Trump: --of years. They say that we had hurricanes that were far worse than what we just had with Michael.

Lesley Stahl: Who says that? "They say"?

President Donald Trump: People say. People say that in the--

Lesley Stahl: Yeah, but what about the scientists who say it's worse than ever?

President Donald Trump: You'd have to show me the scientists because they have a very big political agenda, Lesley.

 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
One problem with trusting scientific consensus, is that it is agreement among a group of people.
A climate scientist ought to be the person whose opinion to trust most.
But then i must ask myself,"Why did they CHOOSE to go into climate science instead of some other field?"

I trust the skeptical community most because they are most aware of logical fallacies and bias and (more than anyone else i can think of) are most interested in knowing the truth, as best we can.

 

In my country there´s always been interest in nature, no matter what others do, actually we grow forest yearly more than we use and it´s been for ages our benefit(science and fuel). The thing is what are we gonna leave it to others, I don´t have children but do you really don´t want everything to turn on turmoil. Do something good, plant a tree every year(something that fits your country, leaf ones pures the air best, willowtree can suck heavy metals from ground) I´m pretty sure every one loves beautiful sites and fresh air and waters

 

For the love of everything good and worth saving: we are going to have unimaginable misery and chaos at best, and complete human extinction at worst, in the next 20-100 years. Conservative institutions like the UK Treasury say we have a 10% chance of not existing within the next 20 years. Think about that.

This problem is so big that people can't look directly at it and understand the horror. Read the climate scientists. Listen to Chomsky and all the geniuses who are jumping up and down and telling us we can't keep going like this. Of course, it's not just Chomsky. If you don't like him, go find any other scientist or intellectual who wants to save the planet and the human race.

We're all going to die if we don't radically change the way we live. There's no debate about that. If one denies it, then they're excluded from the enormous task of saving humanity. And here's the political part: capitalism must fall. There's no way around it. Even the UN is beginning to scream this out loud. Vote for your socialist parties and give us all a chance of surviving.

This is the most crucial time in human history, and Donald Trump-- a syphilitic, moronic, EVIL dictator-in-waiting-- is the most powerful man in the world. We have a lot of work to do, friends. Let's get cracking.

 

His cohorts in his administration AND our congress are hell-bent on destroying the world. That's not an exaggeration. He's put people in charge who are hard at work dismantling every important institution we have in America. He's put people in charge who have publicly stated they intend to get inside these organizations and have them commit suicide. We're all very scared and desperately angry.

 

Friends, the time is now. Whatever energy we have to make music, we have to equal that in our efforts to keep our species alive and our planet healthy. I hope, hope, hope that you all stay safe and aren't lost to the struggle that's coming. Stay strong and be brave.

 

No denying we're all going to die.
Even if we change the way we live.

By the way fun fact. If internet, the pollution it brings, were to be considered a country. Well it would be the third most polluting country in the world after China and the US.
Internet next to air transport in CO2 emission ? 1.5 times more.

You wanna save the planet ?
Turn off your computer, don't debate through it about saving the world while the means itself to debate are the ones that arm the planet.

Just my 2 c ofc....

 

Just save the nature, and visit there once and a while. It´s actually the only thing we got(planet)

 

Actually internet has helped a lot in farming especially now with IoT narrow bands, so not qualified, but yeah data mining/coins is the worst with netflix of coursee

 

We also have to confront the truth that sociopathic nihilists have taken power in most of our countries. Do whatever you can to take the power back for the people. Neoliberalism is a deadly scourge. And the reactionaries are even more open and honest about their indifference to our destruction. We, the people, need to take power, but we also need elected leaders who can legislate QUICKLY. Think about your votes. Get in the streets and demonstrate our desperation. I don't want to die with the haunting thought that we've probably lost the battle for our survival.

 

Which farming ? Farming done in accordance with nature ? Or intensive farming - and the industrial food that goes with it - that bring us closer to the edge.

But then again intensive farming has probably helped bring out of hunger millions of being...Which by their presence alone participate in destroying the planet.

Boy oh boy, my poor head.

 

Huuummm...I don't know. Representatives system (with votes and all) are by definition actually systems that organize throught election the surendering of our power to our representatives. So..... Weird, hum.

 

We don't know if it's too late, so we *must* speed into the future with every ounce of hope and energy. What's the alternative?

And computers/internet? They'll be crucial tools in coordinating our survival. How about we ban mining cryptocurrencies as an important first step. They provide no value for humanity at large. In fact, they are destructive and darkly libertarian in a way that will benefit very few of us. Then we rework our reliance on cars and oil. Change the way our cities operate. It's not going to be easy but big things need to happen *now*.

 

And yes! I agree that representative democracy is largely holding us back. But if we can't muster a serious, people-based revolution, then we need to try to force out the sociopaths and promote some right-minded politicians in the meantime. America is finally getting some democratic socialists in power at the state and federal level. It's astonishing, and it's one of the few bright spots we have to spur us on.

 

I´m not talking about industrial/intensive farming, just pointing out the benefits of technology(btw coming from small farming family both sides, under 30 cows and chickens and everything else)
https://www.link-labs.com/blog/iot-agriculture

 

Representative democracy is only one form of democratic government. What makes the scam blatant is that in most countries, representatives have no obligation to deliver on their promises. And when their constituents cry foul, the government has to be trusted to investigate itself - meaning that nothing fundamentally changes.

Far more fair and practical I think is a delegate-based system, where they represent the public, but answer to them directly, and can easily be fired/replaced if they fail to deliver, or succumb to self-interest. But like all forms of direct democracy, it works best with small groups, like town or city size. Just like how monopolies concentrate wealth among fewer and larger corporatrions, unregulated political capital accumulates into fewer and larger countries. These "superpowers" like the US, Russia, and China are far too geographically and economically vast to be real democracies in anything but symbolic terms. For direct democracy to happen, the classic nation-state needs to break up into smaller regions. Otherwise, their future is in dictatorship, whether that's overt or covert.

Personally, I prefer for scientists to be running things. Career politicians are parasites, like any other management class.

 

We all need to go acoustic, this new electronic music is killing the planet, especially with the big outdoor concerts.

From now on a concert should be just a few acoustic instruments, and maybe have 50-100 local people who live within walking distance attending. No need to drive around anymore.

Also save energy and drink water. No alcohol because it needs energy to make it.

Its just a start, but we can all do our own little bit to save the planet.

 

Last edited: Oct 16, 2018

Obviously representative gov is just one form of governement. I never added democracy behind it though. Wouldn't call it democratic. Historically it's not and was not meant to be It's a common misconception. But well. We can't all know everything about everything, eh. People vote so they think they know about politic, while usually they haven't got a clue. Just like because they know rain and clouds, they think they could be a weather man. Lol.

You mean a representative system like in most developped countries ? Like have you ever heard of impeachment ? Well, that's not direct democracy at all. Ancient Greece was, well if you take away the slaves, and the women without any citizens rights....But well details...

Common misconceptions too. Rousseau was right to say what you write. Nowadays it's not. With communications technology we could have direct democracy anywhere, no matter how many citizens.

They do mostly. We live an era of high technicity where most decisions are taken rationaly according to observable facts. Politicians have advisors who usually are specialists/scientifics in their respective fields, politicians themselves don't know much and don't pretend to. We vote and delegate, our leader delegate to their advisors. It's a kind of a soft technical dictatorship in the name of reason.
Kind of what you want right ?

 

Global Warming is a Hoax! Used to distract you from the real issue - Pollution.
Because the so called climate experts just want to pontificate and not do a real job, like clean up the pollution! They want money for nothing. Let's begin by delivering clean water to peoples homes. Now that's a real issue.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2018

The problem is not the possibility of including a large population, it is that of assuming from the outset that any large population will naturally share the same values or goals. In the time from the enlightenment through to the industrial revolution, the slow nature of communications made it easier for people to act as if we shared fundamental presumptions about how/why to live. But that has only ever been a convenient illusion of consensus, made possible by limited education and the centralization brought about by imperialism. So it was easy enough for the average person to accept without much evidence that "I have most things in common with my countrymen as white, male, Christian property-owners".

So your more technically-mediated democracy is A Thing, but the "borders" such as they break down NOT by geography, but by affinity. So again this points towards a breakdown of the Westphalian nation-state, as defined by centralized control of territory and population. Contemporary countries look more like a subscription-model. The only way to have any larger-scale structure is to have it imposed from outside/above, which is always going to leave a significant population of people alienated.

I think that confuses technicians for scientists. The great thing about science is that it can give you models for what is, but unlike politics and the rest of philosophy is wholly unconcerned about what you should do. Contemporary technocracy is built upon game theory - fitting observable facts into pre-determined strategic games, with their own implicit values and desired outcomes. They do this because it is reductive/simple enough to be actionable, and mostly because it has always been a very convenient presumption to work from. But it's still delusional because people simply don't share the same values, or desire the same outcomes. So what is "rational action" within the framework of one game might very well not be rational or applicable within another.

No, not really. If it was based upon objective reality, rather than one group's values versus another's - there would be no need to impose it on anyone. What I am aiming for is more of a meta-structure that makes it easier for anybody to start their own social structures to accomplish what they need, rather than being resources for some unaccountable hierarchy. There is no "totality". Implement maximum diversity instead of monoculture, knowing and accepting that many groups will fail, rather than "protecting them from themselves" by making them a captive audience to some entrenched power.

The ecological devastation of Earth is the physical symptom of ideological monocultures made manifest. Diversity is the only thing necessary for survival, but humans are more aware than most of their mortality, so they reject this en masse. Diversity and decentralization mean survival generally, but not necessarily survival for you, personally! That is why humans live separately from other animals, and spread monoculture that is as ecologically feeble as the banana-blight. It's basic set theory. You are a subset of humans, who are a subset of animals, who are a subset of organisms, who are a subset of the ecology generally. So human economics and governance nearly all have this backwards, in assuming that the survival, security, happiness, of ANY human can take precedence. It's merely self-serving bias at a species level. And considering it seriously involves re-thinking our most basic assumptions of how to live, create groups, and manage resources. Any schema that tries to put humanity first dooms humanity and everybody else to extinction.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2018