Maybe it seems to you (why ?), but what I said is : correlation doesn't mean causation. I said nothing else, and certainly not that "absence of correlation means causation".

Nothing "bizarre". It's you who choose to decide that these facts are "bizarre", and that I "pursue" them. Why?... What is "bizarre" with them ?... Do I invented them ?... No, I haven't invented them, I only receive them, and try to integrate them in a little understanding. If you don't want to integrate and choose the facts to accept or not within your understanding, that's your choice. Basicaly, it's not a scientific choice (true science is : confronting with the facts, not avoiding them).

A rolling car is correlated to its driver, in most of the cases. The car is not the cause of the driver.
What could make you believe that the brain is not the car but the driver ? What evidences have you to support this belief ? You have no evidences.

What you call "extreme circumstances" (NDE) are only normal circumstances happening regularly in life, with large number of testimonies.
You choose to call them "extreme". It's your choice, I don't know why, but it's yours.

Was your brain in a coma state, at this time ? Have you lost voluntary control of your body, at this time ?

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2018

No, in ALL CASES that we KNOW of the brain is correlated with consciousness. Of course correlation does not mean causation, but i never mentioned correlation. The processes of the brain offer the ONLY "explanation" because only they provide reasonable mechanisms that could CAUSE an effect like consciousness. EVERY other hypothesis offers NO MECHANISM at ALL.

Certainly better than NDE. Testimonials are the weakest sort of evidence.
So, as I said, there is no good evidence of consciousness EVER localized outside the body. NONE. NOTHING. NO EVIDENCE.

Consciousness does not require much brain structure. Consciousness is present in most life forms. Human consciousness is much more complex due to our imagination (another big topic) but is not a different KIND of thing. It is only misconception of what consciousness is that leads to the conclusion that it is a HUMAN thing. Its existence does not separate us from other animals, but its quality does.

All the "facts" are ONLY testimony, and again, testimony is the weakest of evidence, because it is based on claims about experiences by humans with flawed perceptions and logic with consequentially flawed conclusions.

You accuse me of believing in something because i want to, but obviously you are the one wishfully hoping that consciousness can exist in some magical way with no known physical support or foundation, like a spirit or a soul, to exist once the brain is dead.
Admit it to yourself, at least, even if you will deny it here.
No, you are a "true believer", and will never admit it, even to yourself.
Ah, well.

 

So, for you @DoubleTake , consciousness is an effect from a sophisticated mechanical/chemical cause, that's your theory.
What evidences have you about that ?

I presume that you would believe that an enough sophisticated super computer would "cause" an "effect" that would be consciousness ?

I see that you believe that consciousness is an effect, without evidences supporting this curious theory coming from I don't know where (perhaps some bad science fiction ? ).

Do you know someone that has managed to create consciousness, as an effect of something, like you believe consciousness is ?...

By the way, there are not only testimonies in the facts I was talking about ; the "severely damaged brains" are no testimonies but radiographies, and so on... Sorry, I have not the references right there but it is findable.

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2018

The real lesson I learned was that reptilians love to engrave themselves into the human psychy while the Greys love Xbox

 

You're delusional, self-centered and ignorant... but hey, I still love you.

 

No, I'm not a believer, I'm a finder. I found, because I searched enough to. I found little, but fundamental.

So I will graciously admit, to myself and even here, that the Spiritual Domain exists, beyond space, beyond time, beyond energies/matters (E=MC²), that human beings can connect to this in a simple way, and that it has effects in space, time, energies/matters.

Search enough without preconceived, and you will find too. It is not a question of beliefs nor dogmae.

 

There are thousands of articles online. Just search using "best theories of consciousness" and like terms.
Well, here you go:
https://www.google.com/search?num=1...c.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.210...0i13k1.0.Een-_2kqbJs

No. I doubt computers will ever be able to match the "consciousness" of even primitive life forms.
I think computers will do a lot, but it seems unlikely to me. Now THAT IS an idea that i do not WANT to believe in.
Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but a different kind than believing in something without evidence.
There is a lot of evidence that there is great difficulty programming computers to do many things that humans do automatically.

Well, I gave a starting point to see what kind of evidence makes me think what I do about consciousness.
Just ignore the ones that talk about anything supernatural, quantum ____________, aliens, or LSD.
Those might be interesting, but don't present good evidence to justify "believing".

 

You are playing with words
These articles are not evidences.

 

Then it's a lottery as to which one of us is way more f*cked up than the other

 

The site is fucking brilliant lol, i was hosed billy, i was hosed...

 

you are hilarious.

i don't see why you still seem to think i have any interest in engaging with any of your crap, unless you totally misunderstand my sarcasm. you (or this character you are playing) seem to have an elevated sense of self importance. shocking.

at least you have gotten over your hissy fit and directly addressed me. progress. it would be too much to ask that you actually read and correctly comprehend what i am saying. we live in hope.

have a nice day, darling. i am.

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2018

You're - You're hilarious.

 

thanks. will correct it. how embarrassing.

 

seems to be a bit of a pattern. you do realize that in this context failure or success is for others to decide. don't you think you are a bit of a biased party to make that call?. maybe that is just the way it works in your bubble. i don't care either way but i honestly do not see any possible way to fail here.

you have to spin what i am saying some way, but if that is all you can think of then maybe it is somewhat successful. interesting; but some people just fetishize that sort of put down. so?

just interesting is all. carry on.

 

rainbow color polish for clown shoes.
the way you fools are treating this topic.

 

attention: i am a representative of the secretive monolithic powerful international organization xyz. have had to take control of this account in order to implore you to shut this discussion down. i have been authorized to pay as much as you want in order to bring about this outcome. this information cannot get out. if THE TRUTH gets out, all humanity is saved, (except, of course, 'the undesirables') you will all be able to get rid of 'the undesirables' and a 'utopia for desirables' will descend on this great flat plane. peace and well being will be restored in all its glorious wonder. just what we did not want. damn.

we have been suppressing this vital information for time immemorial, well, everyone who sort of wants to know about it does and the rest is just bleeding obvious, but never the less you disclosed the crucial brain stuff and the history stuff -- you monster.

we have been monitoring the usual channels for all these years but who would have thought an audio information forum would be our downfall. who would have thought!

now we will have to retreat to our armed bunker in chile, all because of you -- damn you.

we will now return you to your usual viewing pleasure. have a nice day.

 

They are theories based on evidence, some of it good , some of it weak, but yes, it is evidence.
What you base your belief on is anecdote ... claims by people with NO evidence, and CONTRARY to ALL evidence.
I am not very strict with Occam's Razor because I am not an expert. That means I consider a lot of things that experts might already disregard because they have been over and over the evidence and can't find anything good to support an idea.
But still, I at LEAST do not put my belief to things which are CONTRARY to evidence.

Check out some skepticism websites and you can see there are a lot of ways to judge what is good evidence and what is weak evidence, and what is NO evidence a all.

 

… to be human … hate, love, … both what you want, but it's not natural state but cultural state, anthropologically culture … but some men fire his hands when they listen "culture" word … [sorry for my english (it's my own little "culture")]
… some ways of naturalization of man are at the foundation of hyper liberal laissez-faire, of racism and fascism ...
again: some good books not?

 

We've come a long way

 

I was really humbled by the awesome friends here which was an amazing gift actually. Its not the first time at this forum either. I love you, even though you're dicks.