Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2018

On this new thread name, my original post has no need to be.

Cheers

 

Last edited: Apr 9, 2018

Since you talk about jazz using notes "unpleasingly" I'll rule out technical exercise. That's a subjective statement of course but I'll ignore that for now.

In equal temperament it's often argued that it doesn't really matter what key you use (unless it's minor or major) because, other than pitch, it will end up sounding, mostly, the same (pitch perfect listeners may disagree more). It also allows, IMO, the chromatic scale the best chance to have its case heard.

There's a reason that we write, intentionally or not, in scales (predominately Western) that are not chromatic. There's no root note. There's no resolution. It can be uncomfortable to listen to. It's one thing to tease a listener and not provide resolution when they know it's there and they can hear it in their mind but with the chromatic scale there is no easy resolution.

I don't think you can write truly chromatically without forcing yourself to adhere to a set of rules (or deliberately keep breaking rules) which makes it very hard to not write something technical. I recall studying the Twelve-tone technique and I couldn't quite come to terms with it. There was a famous two weeks in Paris, I think, where almost riotous results occurred when Schoenberg was performed and then, worse, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring (that may have been an actual riot). Then World War broke out. I don't know who was to blame. Probably Schoenberg.

As a child I recall Debussy's chromatic melody in Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun (my apologies for ignoring the customary French title here) and it is beautiful. The entire piece was somewhat unconventional but it still contains structure and key playing around it. As should Jazz.

A hundred years on, entirely chromatic composition is still a challenge for both composer and listener in my opinion. That doesn't mean, in any way, that it's always horrible but it often is. Good luck with your endeavour.

 

Bass virtuoso Victor Wooten has a nice approach to using or not using out of scale notes in playing. He claims it’s all about context. It may not be what you are asking for, but could explain the rationale behind “wrong” notes in the right context:

 

Accidentals (out of scale notes) are impossible in chromatic music.

 

"Using the whole 12 notes of the chromatic scale in a piece in a non-Jazz fashion"

Dodecaphony? AKA Twelve-tone technique?
Bringing awkward music since 1920... well, most of them.

 

What in the world is chromatic music?

 

Is this guy sleeping or what?

 

Hmm... I guess it would be chromatic composition: music written wholly in the chromatic scale which is what I meant but didn't say. My mistake. I think you can gather, from my previous post though, what I meant.

By the way Flight of the Bumblebee is not truly chromatic. The melody is chromatic. It's become a bit of a novelty piece where the full composition, in A minor, is omitted and the melody is played solo presumably for a challenge because it's near impossible for mere mortals to play to tempo.

This is in the key of none and not particularly to my liking but not horrendous:

edit: When I say not particularly to my liking I mean not in the slightest.

 

Last edited: Apr 3, 2018

Twelve tone music is not written in the chromatic scale...
It uses the 12 tones in a matrix, not a scale.
Btw, that Schoenberg concerto is actually beautiful. One of the greatest dodecaphony pieces.

 

I know what you're getting at - I did study it (with prejudice declared). But, essentially, it is a technique (usually broken) for writing music in the chromatic scale using the matrix to try and ensure atonality.

In fact not only is it not more than simply any music written in the chromatic scale it is less since it is a specific set of rules (ignoring the fact that most composers breaks them including Schoenberg) to try and ensure equal weight for a (best salesman's voice coming up) truly chromatic experience. That's my view on Twelve Tone. Stravinski probably broke it best (if we was ever really following any of it) when he started breaking serial techniques.

In the end.. it's music written in the chromatic scale.

I respect your subjective opinion. Mine doesn't concur. I picked it because I used to tolerate it easily but it appears that time has changed that. Absence made my heart grow blacker. Maybe I'm just getting old.

So we're going to disagree on Twelve Tone technique. I mentioned it in my initial post though, because it is helpful in understanding the difficulty of what the poster is asking for. I did note, though, that he asked that it not be atonal which means that it's something for him to look at but won't be the answer regardless. It was all I had myself. I don't know a method that gives him what he's asking for. To me, it seems contradictory. The best I could suggest was chromatic elements. Maybe you have other suggestions?

 

He's maybe fast but way to fast he misses notes and the result is ugly. IMHO

 

Oh! strong stuff smoked here
Not my liking either but still very artistically creative though !

 

i don't have many questions for you Foster, but there is one simple piece of info that could possibly help me have some forbearance.

i wonder, how old are you?

 

That's a bit funny because the beauty of basic chromatic scale twelve tone serial-ism is not exactly "pleasant" for long, and that's the nature of it. You would be less limited in possibilities if used another technique.

 

@mercurysoto You played the ' approach notes ' to a chord often heard in the blues context. It does flow nicely.
Looks like you are playing with some musicians that are challenging the rocker bass player!
Cdim WTF AC/DC never used a dim

 

Chromatic music its not a real music terminilogy. Dodecafonic or twelve tone music is.
And the real motherfucker INTEGRAL SERIAL or serialism.
I do not see a point for discussing this as a curiosity, to undersand you need solid practice in real counterpoint, REAL harmony (nothing like the POP theory course that most teachers never will survive the test to enter in a good university)
Basicaly to obey all the rules requires training, Playing is almost like a horror movie.
In university play and compose this kind of rmusic requires entry in composition (1 to 100) and the subject is only introduced after 4 years.
I played and composed serial music (mandatory in many universities)... its hard hard to play and almost no one like to hear.
Since 83 I use computers, so its good to hear the result... but most of the orchestras will never play anything like because need insane hability and time to learn this obscure language (and the ones who play usually kills the music)
The best of it? it opens your ear.
A pop user should learn? Yes, but do not expect fast results. Many studants drop in that poins.
Frank Zappa and Steve Vai make some serial-isch music, or just a section like introductions or the horror drop down (go DJ!)
Some great serial composers even starve to death (really sad).
So, as a tridimentional being someone can explain what is tridimention for a hipotetical bidimentional being?

 

I think Metallica - Master of Puppets (song, not entire album, of course) and Nine Inch Nails - Pinion may be in the ballpark. A lot of extreme metal is chromatic, but maybe not as "listenable" as you're looking for.

 

you start with chromatic scale 12 notes
divide that in half to get 2 whole tone scales
the 2 whole tone scales make up your diminished and augmented
from these all other scales come, as well is how the keys connect to each other.