When I was in my younger years and served in the military( right before 911 happened) we were taught this.
It may be very effective consistent strategy.

 

Last edited: Mar 20, 2018

@MMJ2017 Thank You For Your Service

 

I served right before 911 started ,on through.....very humbling.
I was born and lived in New York, was stationed in Germany right after training. (when I found out that the u.s.a not necessarily the "best" country"in the world haha)but going around the world I found out that i love all people and countries cultures.

 

heh...

..well..

ive jus broke my wrist....


Tho i was Banger racing at the time..

..So motorsport -ish...

..I dont understand the question.

liek..>>.."why is that somthing needing to be worked out in a forum"
...The answeres oh so simplistic

that said...."perhaps im being a meannie"

 

It's not a real attack, it's an exercise called "randori". It's used to train for freeform multiple attackers, where the key is the correct body movement / footwork. That introductory "wax on/wax off" is a nod to tradition, it's like an opening gambit in chess, or kata. Has to be done correctly but only experts see the difference. The rest of the exercise, the idea is that the aikidoka harmonizes with a whirlwind of random forces from arbitrary directions. The attackers are running like that with arms out because their mission is to grab the guy and pull him down to the ground or just overwhelm and weigh him down. Those particular parameters are what creates the beautiful demonstrations of the art at a high level of proficiency. A guy who's able to do with three attackers can deal with one or two like it's a piece of cake, so it's an impressive feat to observe.

What would happen in a real attack, though? Nothing as beautiful as what happened in the demo. He'll be trying to defend against incoming punches with aiki-deflections and attempting to move into the attacks to close range where it's safer, relyong on the factor of surprise to hopefully get one or two of his own distracting strikes in, and then attempt technique. The aikido guy could easily get his ass kicked to the curb and head stomped in about 2-3 seconds. Easily could go bad for him, and they know it. Very hard to win in such a situation. It's a little like the knife techniques, yeah they exist in some arts and should be tried as a last resort but realistically, it's probably not going to go so good for the unarmed defender. He's most likely dead if he tries it, and just as dead if he doesn't. If the Aikido man comes out victorious out of a 3 person real street attack, or against a knife, I'm going to be standing, clapping and cheering! It's a real miracle if that happens, he really got lucky.

The truth is that Aikido is an "art", similar to tea ceremony, calligraphy etc. It's merit is not winning fights, but being beautiful and an inspiring way to move/resolve force contradictions in the world. It's the semi-religious extacy of correct, unified body movement. If correctly applied, it can help a surprising miracle of beauty and efficiency happen sometimes in the world, like when you sit down and bang out a complete track that is AWESOME in one sitting, without knowing exactly how you just did that. Everything fitting together like it was always meant to go like that. With Aikido it might be you crushing an attack in the parking lot, in a completely unexpected way. Likely it won't be exactly how it goes in the dojo, but you just respond on instinct and it happens. You realize what happened a second afterward. It's all about cultivating that feel, so it's in a way a sorta inner purification ritual which you practice constantly in effort to reach for that goal or ideal. Aikido is the vaguely-combative teaching scenario that helps grasp the fine subtlety of that synchronicity phenomenon or idea, that brings a resounding, effortless success to some endeavour. That is the impressive or inspiring part about Aikido, not really it's techniques which are nothing that special on their own (it's transformed/reinterpreted Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu, and for pure fighting potential this older style is much better and easier to learn - all the cruel joint locks and throws, none of the world-peace pretense). It's not well suited for competetions like UFC, because if the aikidoka is successful there won't be much of a fight, just endless injuries - not interesting to watch and if they're unsuccessful then the aikidoka will get their ass kicked next level, and will naturally revert to doing (half-assed) boxing or wrestling completely forgetting about all that Aikido stuff after the first couple of hard punches hit. In other words, boring too and there's no Aikido to be seen then.

Aikido people need to learn their place and be more humble, because no one has any real insurance against getting their ass kicked by random idiots who have trained in NOTHING. Their Aikido skills are martial in a different sense compared to MMA fighters. In Aikido the main opponent is yourself. Aikido can do and teach a guy beautiful stuff that is thought provoking, but the MMA fighter focused on competition couldn't care less about any of that to begin with and just wants to train for the ring. They are both doing their thing, after all winning in competitions or on the street at any cost is not ALL that life's about.

Aikido people will never learn their place though, because they're nowadays mostly ditzy Americans with ridiculous delusions of invincibility (the Japanese overlords running the Aikido world don't care about this dilution as long as the cash rolls in nice and steady) and seems like 65% of them are fat chicks with blue belts who nevertheless believe they are immortal and can take any man, just like the movies. It helps to never have been in a fight, otherwise this delusion is harder to maintain and the MacDojo gravy train might stop.

 

Last edited: Mar 20, 2018

I have a friend in Los Angeles that trained with the Gracie family. He is a great guy and a fantastic MD. When you train with those guys you develop a special relationship with pain, basically, you put the concept someplace outside of your consciousness as if the sensation is not originating in your body but rather somewhere else. Anyway, my friend called me up after he had a motorcycle accident and asked me to come to his house to reset his clavicle and to work on his muscles around the injury so that they would not spasm, draw in shorter and inhibit the bone from remaining together. The surgeon at the hospital felt that displacement of the bone, the overlap of the injury warranted a bunch of screws and a titanium plate the bring it back together, but the good Dr. D'Angelo did not want any metal in his body and so called me, the only person that he knew that had both the innate skill as well as the insanity to do what needed to be done to heed his need. I suggested that he prescribe himself some morphine because I knew that it was going to take a long time to do what I needed to do, but he declined. When I arrived at his home I saw that bruising from his impact has rendered his normally olive hued skin almost black around the entire upper body on the side of the injury as well as his neck, and the side of his face was purple and green. I think that I got him to take a few hits if weed, but maybe it was just me, LOL, as I felt that I needed something to help ne tunnel my inner vision to see what was going on below the surface. I spent what I think was over two hours resetting the bone and re-educating every muscle that played a part in keeping that bone stable and reconnected. His recovery went very well and within the next six weeks his bone healed perfectly, knitting together so that you could not tell visually that his collar bone every had compound fractured. Pain is French for bread.

 

@Satai

Cool! You have a very balanced and realistic approach, and I applaud that. Especially because...

This is what I'm seeing a lot of. It's unfortunate because it provokes even more ridicule than Aikido already receives from the martial arts community. After I logged off here last night I decided I was way too uneducated about Aikido to even be having this conversation, so I spent a couple hours googling things, watching videos, etc.

I spent a large portion of that time trying to find examples of Aikido being tested in a live combat situation. It's extremely rare. What I discovered is...

Exactly this.

To my surprise, I did manage to find one instance of what is apparently an Aikido technique working in a professional MMA fight. It ended the fight, broke the guy's arm. Shinya Aoki, if anyone's curious. Apparently he is a judoka rather than an aikidoka but the technique is equally applicable in Aikido from what I read.

There's a lot of stupidity going on in the debate between modern martial arts and Aikido. When an Aikidoka succeeds, the MMA crowd cries foul and whines that it's a dirty move (no such thing in martial arts. Many of them focus on eye gouging and groin strikes). When an Aikidoka fails, the Aikido crowd makes a million excuses and almost always shits on the guy who lost, says he's bad and they would have done so much better.

What I gathered is that the wrist locks and such do work, but they require such specific setup that they're practically impossible to pull off, especially since they're not rigorously drilled against live resistance. It seemed like many or most wrist locks required two hands on one, which means you need to get the right grip and apply the right pressure in the right direction against a moving opponent faster than he can punch you, since you're not protecting your face anymore. Risky but not impossible I guess.

 

Good lord. That's a bad motherfucker. And you, too, for having the composure to participate in it. Curious - what exactly is your area of expertise? I didn't know you had the type of skills to set a bone. That's dope.

You story reminds me of a famous BJJ match between Eddie Bravo and Royler Gracie. Warning -fairly long video below, and there's no need to watch it. I'm just leaving it here in case anyone is interested/entertained by this sort of stuff. Eddie Bravo is a BJJ genius and a pioneer of his own unique system. Ironically, he's the Jiu Jitsu teacher of Tony Ferguson, the MMA champ I used as an example earlier in this thread.

Anyway, Eddie wrapped Royler Gracie up in a move that rips your knee apart if you don't tap. He cranked on it for minutes, and per his own description you could hear Royler's knee popping over and over again. Without rewatching the video (which I will after I post this comment) I believe the match ended in a draw. Here's the vid

for those of you on mobile, or if the time stamp doesn't work, the relevant bit starts at about 27 minutes

Fooking amazing, those Gracie jiu jitsu guys.


It was always a great regret of mine that I never stuck with any kind of a grappling discipline. I did a couple years of wrestling when I was young but not nearly enough to be anywhere close to 'good'. I'd still like join a BJJ gym. Boxing is great and all, but I could easily get worked over by a guy with a good double leg and decent top control. My best friend was a fairly accomplished wrestler. Boy, when you're on the ground with someone who has a whole vocabulary of leverage based techniques it's a whole different world.

 

I studied under an amazing bodyworker who helped me develop my gift of empathy, to feel what the person under my hands is feeling and to also coerce the fascia, the soft connective tissue of the body of mammals, into releasing and relaxing away from patterns which inhibit freedom of motion.

I have watched many Royler Gracie fights and was always amazed that he could overcome the great weight and height advantages of his dangerous opponents. Lots of it was growing up surrounded by some of the greatest grapplers in the world and lots of it had to do do with sheer will to triumph. The whole family is badass. The Gracy clan are a force to reckon with, there is no way short of nuclear weopons that can stop them if they have the will to conquer.

 

I would have thought musicians are the least likely to be attacked by silly people, i always assumed that we, musicians, are trying to evoke emotions but not necessarily bad ones. I would have thought the OP would have talked more about keeping fit with normal regimes for what is after all a sedentary occupation rather than 'boxing' for goodness sake. The expression 'hearts are Trumps' fills me with horror

 

"Some" years ago I learned Wing Tsun for some time. Very effective for self-defense (it's kind of Chinese street fighting Kung Fu, tought in a Kung Fu school, not in a club), but with box training you will do much more for your fitness.

 

Do you get the impression that "boxing" is about violence? do you think boxing is not "normal"?
do you get the impression that boxing is NOT a full body workout?
my impression about keeping fit with boxing is about having awareness of your body, along with a fullbody workout and a self defense component should you ever need to protect yourself.
the tools that I use most often are meditation and stretching, next the others come in.
I feel knowledge of self defense is important also. (maybe you will never need to though which is great)

 

Last edited: Mar 21, 2018