It's good that the projects don't sound any different to you, because they're the exact same sound-wise.

Besides the OS-related 64bit architecture (nothing to do with sound) there's also 64bit processing inside of some plugins. This is completely independent from the OS, you could have a 32bit DAW running a 32bit plugin, inside of which some of the processing is done with 64bit precision. This is the only kind of 64bit that can affect the sound...

 

@taskforce, excellent explanation. Thanks for chiming in.

 

Yeah, some 32-bit plugins may have 64-bit float/double precision or even 80-bit long double/extended precision (LoudMax) and other variants (airwindows), and vice versa, 64 bit plugins may be 32-bit float (hundreds of them, as I know - ik multimedia t-racks)

 

Since taskforce explained it so eloquently , all I can say is...

You use 64-bit OS and DAW so you can run more of those 40MB+ hardware lookalike plugins that contain multiple GUI graphics for different resolutions, but the code that actually processes the sound is still ~192KB.

Ranting as usual... now where's my Atari Mega4 ST...

 

Yep, all has been said -
There are in total four layers of this:

32bit/64bit in OS kernel.
32bit/64bit in a process
32bit/64bit single or dual precision when processing PCM audio
and finally 16bit vs 64bit on Nintendo 64 and Atari Jaguar

 

Thanks everyone for your good words, i do appreciatte it. I 'd like to add/clarify a factor that gets ignored or forgotten that i find of importance to be heard, although for some it might be old news so you may excuse me
I know most of us have moved to 64bit systems.
But, 32bit systems are NOT limited to 4gb ram. Ever since the Pentium Pro (1995) most cpus to my knowledge support what is known as the Physical Address Extension which gives the ability to 32bit cpus to address more than 4 gb of ram. Of course this is closely related to the OS handling this, and seems to me, Microsoft did not like the idea of its cheap 32bit consumer OS's to be able to function as small server Os's. So they singlehandedly neutered the ability of their 32bit desktop Os's to address more than 4gb of ram with pretty much laughable claims of 3rd party driver incompatibility issues. For instance WinXP and WinXP SP1 had this function unlocked, but from Win XP SP2 (2004) and forth, MS prohibited their 32bit Os's from using more than 4gb ram. On the other side of OS's the 32bit Windows 2000 Datacenter Edition could address up to 32gb of ram (back in early 2k, exactly 18 years ago!) and the 32bit WinServer 2003 Enterprise could handle up to 64gb ram.
It was soon "circulated" that the limit of 4gb in Windows was a registry limit handled by the ZwQueryLicenseValue function which in turn was "called" by a Windows internal check named MxMemory Check. Removing this check is done by changing two simple values in registry and you can have 32bit Windows do this (yes, this is real alright) :

So what i am saying here, despite the benefits that it brought to certain user target groups (but years later for most people), the move to 64bit was imposed, dictated and rushed. My claim or observation if you like, is that it was more of a marketing trick than a much needed upgrade, at the time it was introduced. The tech for 32bit architecture to address more ram was there, and apps (afaik) could be upgraded to use this tech too instead of being re-compiled for x64 (which is quite the task for big complex apps), but the greed was there too eheheh. You cannot upgrade a 32bit Win Os to 64bit. You gotta buy a new one. And you gotta buy the x64 software and so forth.
Of course many of us would use "web" versions of the Os and softies but the millions of laptops and OEM desktops with Windows pre-installed sold every year, have made MS a significant amount of fresh money and buyers to exploit.
Thanks for your time

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2018

ONLY 64-bit can address more than 4GB directly (linear address space), where 32-bit can use more memory only segmented (which is slower to access and has other drawbacks, too).

 

Yes you are right. The segmented model can have page overlaps, more errors etc., as you correctly pointed out and thanks for this.
In practice though, my 11 y.o. Shuttle mini pc (Core2 Quad @ 2.4 ghz, 8gb of ram & a Delta Audiophile) still works flawlessly with Win XP 32bit and Win7 32bit later both the aforementioned reg hack. This comp ran Acid Pro 7, Cubase 5 and Reason 5, all 32bit and connected via rewire with Cubase being the host. Never noticed any problems nor software crashes. Acid Pro 7 was even "happy" to address 3 gb of memory with LAA enabled. I do have 4 newer comps in the studio and 2 newer at home so this comp is only playing movies now at home, but it was my "auxilliary music comp" for about 5 years.
To be clear, my last post was meant to inform of the possibilities and potential market exploitation strategies imposed by MS, not to glorify 32bit computing lol. When Win XP 64bit was released in April 2005, imho there was absolutely no need for it. Desktop mobos were maxed at 4gb and the brand new ones (for the Pentium D) at 8gb ram. The whole thing of the "triumphant trumpets" and "hey look here we got 64 bit" and blah blah, to me it was pretty much a charade than a much needed transition. Imho, 64bit for desktop systems became truly relevant a good 3.5 years later (Nov 2008) with the 1366 socket and the i7 920 which could support up to 24gb of ram.
Cheers

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2018

It's all AMD's fault (x86-64 specs available 2000, retail proc 2003). Who asked for them 64-bit procs with pointless x86_64 instruction set? Not knowligibel OGs like u & i, that's who! Not that we can't handle them newfangled gizmos, we can & do. Make them run 32-bit OS, in legacy mode.

 

Some good comparisons between 32bit and 64bit and their usage in better dealing with the plugins:
https://support.image-line.com/action/knowledgebase?id=34&ans=415




Also this trick allows accessing more memory in 32bit OSs for all applications using Microsoft's switch (read the whole for more info):
https://www.image-line.com/support/flstudio_online_manual/html/panel_cpu.htm
bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 3072
bcdedit /deletevalue IncreaseUserVa

 

This is actually how to enable what i mentioned earlier as the LAA (Large Address Aware) and it allows 32bit apps in 32bit Os's to use 3gb of ram instead of 2gb which is the default value.
32bit programs in a 64bit OS don't need this, 64bit Windows allocate up to 4gb of ram for each 32bit software running, by default.

 

The direct memory address is an important advantage because memory accesses are relatively expensive (for hardcore C/C++/Assembly programmers make that "extremely expensive!!" lol). But indeed we could use for many uses 32bit for 4+ GB.

There's this "Primocache" RAM/SSD for HDD caching utility that lets you use all your memory past the first 4GB for its caching in 32bit Windows.

Asides from that... this reminds me a lot of unfair tricks used by MSoft over the years. Not that the competence doesn't practice them (the iOS "get slower or get the last iPhone", man I'm still laughing to my macboys/girls friends).

The classic "only Vista CAN support DirectX 10". Some hackers developed DirectX 10 drivers for Windows XP a couple of years later.

But at the end they got us by the balls. The classic Microsoft scheme for killing older Windows it's kind of:
1. New version of DirectX artificially incompatible with old Windows (from now AIWOW, or AIWOW64 if you prefer ;) )
2. Gradually incorporate new features in the standard de-facto Visual Studio IDE AIWOW
3. The final blow: new major .NET framework version AIWOW.

With Windows XP they were forced to wait a long time for the step 3. Well, they only got time for the first before realising that Vista was a piece of crap.

PS. @taskforce, I'm tempted to reinstall Windows XP just to see that screenshot lol. Geek hazards...

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2018

I can't believe somebody made this thread in 2018

 

It was soon "circulated" that the limit of 4gb in Windows was a registry limit handled by the ZwQueryLicenseValue function which in turn was "called" by a Windows internal check named MxMemory Check. Removing this check is done by changing two simple values in registry and you can have 32bit Windows do this (yes, this is real alright) :

Thanks Taskforce for all the very useful information. On my XP SP3 machine I am unable to find anything resembling ZwQueryLicenseValue or MxMemory Check, even after a thorough regedit search, and other searches. Trying to execute bcdedit also comes up empty, function not found. Can you tell me where I can find these regiister entries to make the changes. I have 4 Gb on that machine, but any time Kontakt goes beyond 1.9 Gb the system gives up and heads for the nearest bar.

 

I wonder why no audiophiles argument that everything sounds so much better on a 64-bit system (at LEAST 2x better) ... ;)

 

Read my previous post. It has a solution for windows XP 32 Bit:



The link is broken so try this out:
Enabling 3GB switch on Windows XP or Windows Vista:
http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2009/04/enabling-3gb-switch-on-windows-vista.html

Editing the Boot.ini file in Windows XP:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...boot-ini-file-in-a-windows-server-2003-enviro

More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2018

As long as you don't talk about detecting by ear 320kbps MP3 or 96Khz or more frequency sampling rate they aren't interested... ;)

No wonder why there isn't a solution for Windows 7 or later but works easily on Vista. Microsoft "fixed" it I'm betting.

 

Read that post again. It has a solution for all types of Windows:



First obviate the OS's problem by this post (if you have more than 4GB of RAM):
https://audiosex.pro/threads/what-is-the-deal-with-64bit.33938/#post-317434
then application's problem by this post:
https://audiosex.pro/threads/what-is-the-deal-with-64bit.33938/page-2#post-317571

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2018

@VintageDOC
Oh, you got me double checking, so i called my partner (double phd in comp.science &programming/analyzing) and turns out for WinXpSP2 he had modified the Kernel to accept Page Address Extension and i recall we switched from an original version to a cracked one because original Windows would render the licence void after tampering with the Memory Licence limit.
This guide i link here works with Vista (that screenshot in my first post) and Win7, 32bit versions. But you may try it with Xp too (just remember to make a system backup/image first, so if something goes wrong, you can bring it all back):
https://forums.evga.com/HOW-TO-Removing-4GB-Memory-Limit-on-32-bit-Windows-m960087.aspx
( @Xupito, yes the guide works with win7 32bit mate :D )
BUT, for a system with only 4gb of ram, the fuss is too much so most likely you will be fine by enabling LAA (3gb switch) for your DAW and Kontakt. If the bcdedit didn't work for you, to enable the 3gb switch in Win XP SP3 do this:

Disable hidden files and folders, then on C:\ you'll find a file named boot.ini. Make a backup, then open the original boot.ini in notepad and add the following to the end of the sentence: /3GB/Userva=2560 so it reads like this:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows XP " /fastdetect /3GB /Userva=2560
Save and exit, reboot. Done.

Also to make specific applications Large Address Aware and a general guide with some handy executables in the bottom, is here:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/large-address-aware.112556/
Cheers
PS: This is a copy paste of the availability and declaration of Zw..Value

The ZwQueryLicenseValue function is exported by name from the kernel in version 6.0 and higher. It is also available in user mode, being exported by name both as NtQueryLicenseValue and ZwQueryLicenseValue from NTDLL.DLL in version 6.0 and higher.

NTSTATUS
ZwQueryLicenseValue (
PUNICODE_STRING Name,
ULONG *Type,
PVOID Buffer,
ULONG Length,
ULONG *DataLength);

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2018

Also, make sure to add

Code:

Device=A:\DOS\Emm386.exe Noems

to your CONFIG.SYS.
With Edlin.

Or run a 64-bit OS, like a human being.