Hm..Let me try and clarify for you as best I "Feel" (after all, Funk is definitely that!) and grew up knowing it to be.

See again like the AWB, Playing something "Funky" and Being a "FunK Group" are 2 different things. The State of "Feel" and "Mind" and "Soul" That actually creating Funk Music and not "Funky" music are Cousins but not the same. They Just Share components. I never, ever considered (while growing up and neither did anyone else I grew up) James Brown a Funk Artist. He was the Godfather of Soul, Period! Sly as prolific and "Funky" as he was, again was even more closely related to Funk than JB but was still a Soul/R&B artist. People forget that when JB was beginning to use those future Funkateers (late 60's) in his band (which changed his music) that the Godfather of Funk (George Clinton) was already heading deep into that experimental territory...and he never strayed.

Yes, there will always be plenty of influences in "Black" music, but it's like any other formula in life that creates something...It has to start somewhere. In my world, Funk wasn't Funk until Funkadelic/Parliament called called it FUNK. Before that everyone called everyone like JB and Sly "funky". And most importantly, when George Clinton finally created that moniker he had evolved the music to that point with his approach enough to be known that the Sound was Funk. Not just Funky. It was always funky until he made that style Funk i.e. the use of and blend of not just what and how they played but also what they used to play it (truth be told for a purist, if you don't have a Mutron on a bass or a MiniMoog bass line, it's probably not certified, lol). What the theme was, Funk became a way of life, it was written all over the albums and people jumped hard on the band wagon. But at that point his sound was so unique and fresh that it was interesting watching people try and mimic them.

So many R&B groups imitated Funk. Would do a "Funk" Type track on their album. Hey, why not! If it sells. But, it was always done in an interpreted manor as I see it. But being "Black" at that time (60's, 70''s) and doing music was about what life was and what we were going through so everything was created, played and recorded from the Soul. As a musician, that was all we had. And we loved all of "our" music genres. It is nowadays a lost art. But there is always hope even with some of the new artists.

Now lets get real deep...If you come from that era, lived that music at that time...and were Black...you know that almost everything that (don't hate me)...People keep posting here is not Funk, but is funky. Like...Snarkypuppy, D-Train (who I have worked with before), Chic ( Disco/Dance, which Nile was one of my later influences), Marvin Gaye(Soul), AWB, Little Jo, Delta?!! Anthony Bricanti??? lol.

You're confusing what sounds funky to you with what is Funk. Also I don't agree with what every person interviewed in that documentary is saying. If you listen closely you will hear some (especially the youngest of the interviewed) struggle calling it pop or funky or soul, but very rarely just Funk. Again JB and Sly were funky, but not a Funk Act or Band. Until Boostsy and Catfish came into his band for JB what really was Funk?

Now as a Guitarist I can play many genres of music, but always feel like I am faking the "funk" lol, when I play Yes's "Owner of a lonely heart". Oddly enough I think I like it because it does sound kinda funky to me. I like many rock songs and play them well. Still, rock sounds so "straight' to me. Ya know, when I hear a Racist person attempt to insult me by using the phrase "ya'll like fried chicken and watermelon"...I laugh and think...yes I love fried chicken and watermelon, but who doesn't. majority of my friends both Black and White, Asian, Spanish do! But I also understand his intent. If your not from the USA, you probably can't relate as to why he said that but just understand it wasn't kool. But for me, I lived it. Can you Live it?

@Olymoon asked, was it about color/race. Unfortunately, for the Most part it is. About a people, a struggle, a time in music that a people of color in struggle created a new genre of music. If you didn't live it then, unfortunately, then you to also are interpreting what Funk truly is. Which is why most of you keep calling someone playing something funky, Funk music. I know, I know, it's hard for you to think outside the box. But again, you will never be able to understand if you don't go beyond the surface of why it exists and for most people, that doesn't even matter. After all, for most it is an outdated lost genre of music. Just not for someone like me that grew up on it, lived and breathed it from it's inception. Every time I hear "One Nation under a groove" I hear hope for humanity (Plus it makes me move and groove) that as a world there will come a better day. Do you?

Lastly...There are many people of all races that Love Funk, that play Funk. Very few create Funk. You have some great musicians of all races! I Love that! But, they just play what is funky. Every time I see a guitarist on you tube mimic Funk, it always makes me understand they are thinking more like James Brown and are "Playing" funky kind of riffs. Not Funk.

Now, in my humble opinion if you as a musician (not a listener) Can create pure Funk Songs, then you are Funk. But that sample kit by Wolfgang Gartner that somebody called Authentic and Confirmed that started this discussion is a Fake and a watered down version of what Funk is!

 

Last edited: Dec 11, 2017

...it was Wolfgang Gartner who said that

 

As much as I love Classic Funk (60's - 70's). My fav is still 80's funk.

 

I don't know what it is but really like the vibes. I think first time I know that funk music exist was from Vanilla Ice.. somewhere there I heard a cool catchy phrase about funk music..

 

yep!

 

Funk is all about space n fitting in the groove n making it nasty as you could

 

I remember this when I was younger, do not know if it meets the standard.

 

I do not mean to offend you but he is not even in the league of funk players, not even close.

 

Sure here is one

And one of my favorites below

 

For me Funk is not a sound, it's a feeling, like house music is in our modern time. Something can be funky without being funk and something that use the element of what we call "funk" can be "not funky" (like this soundpack in the first post).

Funk, soul, blues, house, aswell as punk and other "genre" are not really genre for me, but more feeling. Like Funkadelic got the feeling of funk with the spirit of punk and some soul vibe sometime.

It's natural for human to want to classify everything in one category, and it can be usefull, but sometime it's not enough to identify a sound, because music is not just about the sound, but more about the feeling.

Like Eddie Amador said in a classic house track "not everyone understands house music, it's a spiritual thing, a body thing, a soul thing"
You can replace house by funk, soul, blue, punk, techno or whatever you want

 

As much as I love HH, I would not call that funk. It's Jazz with a side of funk.

There was a sound based on Funk back in day in Minneapolis mostly as result of the work done by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. I think The Time got close to a funk sound, but it wasn't there, it was a bit too clean.

Lets not forget - the Superfreak - Rick James - You can hear and feel the difference between funk and funky - funk music is loose and greasy and wants to suck you in... you want to get on that mothership and move on to somewhere that aint where you are right now.

It's almost an alternate reality and to be honest nobody did it better than Parliament. You can just look at the clothes for the most part as blaqmatic has said before, the men were peacocks and the women were goddesses and for short time you could not give a fk and just be.

 

Wow like house music is in our modern time. I really am scratching my head on this one.

I play guitar and I can tell you you have to feel it to play it, and to get that sound you have to feel it .
It's not a machine it a instrument.

 

No, It wasn't. It was AlwaysGrate... that said it. and that was who I was quoting. I was just trying to not state who it was, that wasn't important to me.

@midi-man Now that song by the Brothers Johnson (another influence of mine as I was growing up) is a Funk song, Done by an R&B Group. Wild cherry is a prime example of imitating something funky and it received the "Black" Card from Black folks, just like AWB and Boz Scaggs and a few others. Do you know what the "Black Card" is..? if you do then you must have a black friend or watch black tv shows, LOL! Funny thing is as a Black American growing up "feeling" Racism isn't it ironic that we never discriminated against any race that could get or be Funky! All along gravely being discriminated against for our skin color. A subject that seems old but still is alive and well in America!

Now, remember Imitation is the greatest form of Flattery! And I see nothing wrong with it. Those acts were happily accepted in my community.

But we would expose a fraud...Just like Vanilla Ice was. It's better to just be who you really are in life and not pretend. However, back in the day it was almost impossible though for a White person to be accepted by Rappers. That which is now called Hiphop. My how that has changed for the good as well as more whites buy Hiphop than Blacks do! lol. Ain't Life grand. It is full of ironies.

@11Fletcher...how wrong you are. Funk is again, as I stated before a Blend of many things, Feeling, Sound, Musician's Soul, A Black person's struggle or state of mind...If we are still speaking about Funk Music. It can also be categorized. After all a genre is just a form of music. You need different ingredients (Blends) to make a recipe(Music)...But in the end it will be Bread...but what Type(Genre) of bread is it. White bread, wheat, french or Italian? Funk, rock, jazz, hiphop... get my point?

Any way, I love almost all music. Funk or Not..Or is it Funk-o-nots

P.S. what has come to past for me in this thread is learning of the death of one of my main influences Louis Johnson. The Perfecter of Slap Bass. May he rest in peace.

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2017

Autechre did Funk:

 

@blaqmatic
I understand this is a personal thing to you and i'll try to be as watchful, respectful and pragmatic as i can.
I will try to expand on what you said from a different point of view, as i was not there, i am not black and i am not American. Feel free to correct me how you see fit
To start with:
Speaking about a musical genre that has all sorts of inluences and referring to its purity-originality seems contradictory to me. Especially about the Clinton P-Funk in which about half the tracks made in the 70s, sound like a cross of psychedelic soul, progressive rock and funky music, with many parts free of form and with a lot of improvising live. Add to this the extravagant theatrical stage appearences later on, and the Clinton "cosmotheory" and you have yourself something like what SunRa & The Arkestra started before Clinton, but with a more appealling stage "rockin" act, meaningful lyrics (not all of the times) and music that for the most part could be be much more pleasant to the ears than Sun Ra's wild jazz excursions. This, is THE FUNK ? I mean if what i described as the Parliament/Funkadelic style in the 70s IS the Funk, then you are correct that it's a lost art because it is so personal, that makes it almost impossible for others to re-create than except perhaps B.Worell, Bootsy Coolins and anyone who has been part of Clinton's inner circle.
Now, if i was to play the devil's advocate i 'd ask, what makes it so noteworthy that a person used the noun instead of the adjective. Funk vs Funky. Let's break it down, shall we?
1) The music was already there. How? Somewhere in the long Clinton's career, back in '67, The Parliaments were playing "I Wanna Testify" and JB played "Cold Sweat". Comparing the two -again correct me if you feel so- JB's funky music is much closer to what is defined worldwidely as "Funk" than the 1967 Parliaments' straight and clean r'n'b. It is even closer to what the Parliament and Funkadelic played in the 70s, only it preceeds them.
2) The lyrical thematology, culture and performing arts' style were again already there.
Lyrically, 1969's JB's "Say It Loud – I'm Black and I'm Proud" was a political step forward especially after 1968's Martin Luther King's violent death.
Culturally, Sun Ra's brand of Afrofuturism had already been established as a space jazz bebop sort of thing (since the 50s), and while it includes a variety of themes, it is best known as Afrocentric, on which i won't expand as it is self explanatory.
Meanwhile, in the late 60s Europe, prog rock stars Genesis with frontman Peter Gabriel and "the man with the 1000 faces" David Bowie, had already taken UK and Europe by storm with their theatrical performances, Pink Floyd's pshychedelia was the latest trend, and in Germany a band which would be called Kraftwerk later on, was silently sculpting their pure electronic sound which was meant to have a huge impact in audiences and artists alike around the globe when we turned to the 70s.
Now put all these elements mentioned in a bowl, stir firmly, and you 'll have Parliament's/Funkadelic unique style.
As this evidence shows, the multi talented G.Clinton didn't have to invent much. He arrived there. Meaning he combined elements, to come up with a style that was indeed unique and personal that we call P-Funk, and not just Funk because as i said in my first post, there was no parthenogenesis. Now i have the utmost respect for anyone and anything of that era and i am a total sucker for G.Clinton's body of work, but idolizing is not part of my game. I try to state the facts from a global scale and not personal.
You see, losing the Y to the FUNKY does not grant you innovator rights. Not by law and not morally or ethically. Especially when you play the same funky music others played before you, only with a different twist. Clinton's innovation was the blend he came up with, leading funky music to the next evolutionary step, which i believe is well granted to him ever since. And for George Clinton, this could be interpreted as a targeted choice too if you like, since he was already in the music biz since at least '61 and also managing his band, which again means it could be a business move as well. So yes, he may have baptized FUNK but surely didn't invent Funky music. And because Clinton's Funk and JB's Funky are twins musically, only not identical, i 'd credit James Brown as the start of Funk anytime.
All people, even the originators, should understand that when something you created becomes much bigger than what you can handle yourself, this "thing" is gonna go places. And if this thing is art it has no trademark other than your song's rights. When it becomes universal, is going to evolve, be renamed, bastardized, capitalized upon, imitated, stolen and exploited in both good and bad ways.
And so did happen with Funk. Imho, any puristic ideas about "original funk" are false, because funk, as a musical species, just ain't pure to begin with. As artists and musicians it is our "obligation" to keep an open mind, and as Funk was the evolution of combined genres that led to it's own musical revolution, it should only be fair play to accept its successors in return. Because if we wouldn;t we simply wouldn't be funky.
Funk according to baptist Clinton, is about freedom, peace, love and unity. Clinton, a musical genious imho, has done anything from house to electro to hiphop to rock which goes to show The Funk knows no boundaries. Or do you doubt that anything he did after coming up THE FUNK was FUNK even if it was heavy metal ? As in my earlier post Funk is the feeling and message it carries. And as such any funky music, can be entitled as Funk and not just funky. Otherwise Jazz Funk would be funky jazz and Funk Rock funky rock etc etc. But it ain't. I mean Disco contains enough Funk to be legit. Maybe with a watered down message but still its heart and soul comes from FUNK and not just funky music. Because it is about freedom of expression, sexual choice, love and happiness. House among other things is Funk too. For more or less the same reasons.
Finally, i understand the imitation references and are well justified. But as time goes by, genres evolve, blend and transform. As artists we evolve likewise. Not under the hood of following trends but under the need to move on and create anew. Thinking that in our time, "that" music was dope and everything else after it is imitations, imho doesn't reflect reality. Cheap imitators never last long, they will be chewn and spat.
Music and its creation is a living breathing phenomenon. And as such, i see no bounds holding people back from playing any kind funky music. I only see people who got the groove and funkless mofos, excuse me. And while they both exist in the industry i choose the first to go with.
So, even if it isn't THE FUNK as it was conceived by baptist Clinton, at age 2017 there's 5 decades of funky music, span in more genres than one can shake a stick at. We pick our poison and move on.
Thank you for your time,
With utmost respect
Babs

 

@taskforce...Respectfully, I see your point, but it is that very slanted view that I thought I covered so much about since I began this thread. It’s not just about dropping the “y” or that would be Semantics. And again, you want to make JB funk. He is not. He is funky. And my technical point since is simply that it was George Clinton that labeled what his music was, Funk. He was never the “only” funky musician. Just the first to drop the “y” and create a unique sound when he did it. If in your lengthy statement, if you think that someone sounded like him (when they dropped that fateful track that changed it all, “get up on the down stroke”) and Parliament/Funkedelic I would ask you who? And as (and no disrespect intended) an “outsider” who as I said can’t really understand that movement, just can analyze and research times and dates you believe relative to your theory. As long as you keep thinking like most “white” people that Funk and funky are the same, this subject That I do passionately discuss will be Moot.

It’s kinda like asking a white slave master’s family 100 years later if you can truly understand what, how and why we feel the way we feel today. Just you doing some research and homework could never truly understand that time and place. Sorry. Truth be told, I don’t expect you to understand what it was like for me or my fellow musicians that lived through that time period. But still I try. Funk made life better, it opened up hope, fun, craziness, happiness etc, etc. All the things Music has the power to do.

I asked the question “do you know what a Black card is”? I noticed you didn’t address that...do you know? And do you have one? Love to see you answer that honestly. I also see you never addressed the Black struggle at that time. Do you think you can “feel” and understand that too? Or did you just selectively not touch that subject and just try and recite you’re theory on how and when Funk started? Or is it just that, that’s way out of your depth being that you are European(?) and not an American.

Regardless of whether the egg came before the chicken.

Now a few points on your questions...
House music will never be Funk, can’t believe you said that, lol.
Yes, I agree music has no bounds...until you call it something. Give it a label.
Any one can be funky. Yes, there is plenty of Funky music. But even that is a “feel”. If you think you are , ok. Music is subjective. Just like any other opinion.
No one could ever hold a true musician back. We have supernatural powers!
I have heard some Disco tracks that was a little funky, but it definitely didn’t have Funk in it. Again it was a little funky. Equating Disco with the word Funk is like slapping me in the face.
Ya see, Disco while having some small influences still doesn’t have the Funk “feel” no matter how much one tries to say its funky.

Hm...stir it up? Did you use Bowie, Genesis, Pink Floyd and Peter Gabriel as apart of what Clinton used to make Funk? That’s like saying a white guy invented Rock and Roll! But that is what most white folk think. But let’s not address that now.

I wish I could invent a time machine.

With much respect to you as well Babs.

TRT.

 

Funk or funky, taking the risk of ignoring the historical and social relevance of Funk, I'm trying not to over-analyze it. For me, Funk is a mix of sound and feeling purely coming from the song I'm listening to, not its heritage nor history nor background.
blaqmatiq's videos trigger exactly that for me, so any song that gives me that groovy feeling and makes me want to dance I would dare to classify as Funk.

Here's another one I liked so much we just had to play it in our Funk band. And no brass section required, although we'd have loved to have one.
Btw, the singer is young sweet Chaka Khan

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2017

Funk is a repetitive dance music based on some african influence (the subdivision of the beat and the "swung" notes). It's not that hard to renotate a typical funk rhythm in a non-western time signature to remove the swing, but most people prefer sight reading in 4/4 (+ how many funk musicians use sheet music, I doubt that they are that many). Instrumentation is modern (often guitar/bass, some kind of brass instrument/s, some kind of keyboard) with some occasional latin american percussion instruments.

When people say "funky" it usually denotes a "swung" rhythm. So you can make funky house or whatever without problems. If you use funk instrumentation + some typical funk rhythms + the standard scales usually employed (various pentatonics and the diatonic scale in most cases), you can make real funk.
The colour of your skin or the year in which you are born are not the factors determining, if your music can be called "funk".
Genres can be stretched - you can create new subgenres or new genres by mixing idioms or replacing certain aspect (instrumentation, rhythms or pitch structures).

The splice demo track is disco (often associated with funk in the past).

 

Just because you don't feel it, doesn't mean it's not something you can feel. I don't say house music is the only thing you can feel in our modern time, I just say it's something you have to feel to understand. Being made with machine doesn't mean the machine create it, it's just a tool, there is human being it. Just like 80's music (like 80's funk).

And on the opposite, just because a music is play with "real" instrument, doesn't mean it have this feeling. It's not about what your play, it's about the intention you put in, the same way a guitarist scratch his chord or a house producer build his track. Parliement was made with synthetiser, based on a metronome rythme, that doesn't make them less funky.

You can make shitty music with instrument the same way you can make great music with computer. Again, it's just about the intention you put in it