I do beg to differ from my friend @SineWave as to how important is the OS. It could be from an IT executive's or computer enthusiast's point of view. It isn't as such because if we 're talking daw, it is the audio software choice and according hardware and its compatibility a user should be really concerned about. The major factor is most DAW users interact mainly with the audio/midi software and the plugins they use, not the OS per se. Plus it is the only thing they need to train themselves at. You do not have to be a comp wizard or windows/macos expert to work with Cubase or any other DAW. You do have to have some music knowledge/training and digital audio/midi fundamentals understanding. But just basic OS knowledge is enough even for professionals, and more or less every Os will do the same job: Running the DAW soft and plugins.
For the other thingie:
Ok win10 sucks. Those who have tweaked it to death, are only fooling themselves, as they practically have a win7 os with a different shell, bootloader and varying driver compatibility etc. To end this, the minor benefits of win10 and a full blotware/spyware campaign from MS in vanilla win10, have led -2 years later after win10 was released- the majority of users worldwide, around 46.5%, to still use win7. Win 10 is around 29%. Win XP (released 16 yrs ago) is at 6.5%. MacOSX is at 3.5% and Linux at 3.3%. Given that 99.5% of every new pc sold includes exclusively win10 and the last two years at least 500 million devices were sold -270 million in 2016 (about 80 % desktops-15%laptops-5% tablets etc), the difference in user preference is even larger statistically. Numbers speak for themselves, the rest is personal testimonies which any individual shouldn't care about, unless there is a proven case.
Also sorry and i mean no offense but peeps like Legotron show to have little knowledge of what they talk about. M2 is a form factor not a type of connection protocol dude. M2 ssds can be PCI-E, SATA and USB3. They can also support AHCI and NVMe depending on the iteration. His mate probably has an NVMe PCI-E x4 M2 ssd.
Also, @swavenation, take that screenshot please. Then you may realize that the Apollo8 is a Thunderbolt card and not USB-C. A Thunderbolt connection is practically a PCI-E connection using a different medium. A USB connection isn't no matter how fast it may be theoretically. The connector port may be the same, the protocol is not. Buy the Apollo for an arm and a leg and then you gotta buy a qualified Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt adapter which is not included. Also go to the UAD hardware compatibility page and you will see they suggest Z170 motherboards. Which should be the hottest if it was early summer 2015. But it's more than 2 yrs past. And we 're talking hardware not software. And then they suggest a native thunderbolt over USB-C port not an add-on Thunderbolt card. Which again means compatibility with x270, x370 and x299 chipsets is a factor of pure luck lol. Then you do a lil bit of research and find out that in their own users forum, most people use an add-on card for Thunderbolt with their Apollos lol (people with Asus boards mainly). And they all done it in a trial and error process. So much for the compatibility stated on the official page. Do you get where i am going? The Apollo is one of the best sounding hardware you can buy but plagued by an offensive price and poorly transfered to Windows. And sadly strictly win10 compatible and only under certain circumstances met. (Did i mention that i do own a UAD-1 and a UAD-2?).
So as i said in the very beggining the DAW soft and accompanying hardware compatibility is what users should focus on. You want a Thunderbolt Apollo, you gotta go Win10 or MacOSX. The rest, more or less is mentioned in every pc hardware review site that respects itself.
Upgrading to a newer OS is something all longtime users have gone through. Knowing when to upgrade rather than be a mindless adapter of everything new is crucial for daw users. With that in mind, amateurs and computer geeks may be excused, audio pros are not because unwanted studio downtime may cause a considerable money loss.
Oh and what is with every other Win10 user here that has Win10 LTSB? I even heard a user who found grace with Win Server 2016 loI like he knew his left from right or so help me God. I highly believe most of you don't have the official licence nor the skill to use these Os's and even less state your case while you are all on a hacked/cracked Os of which,even 2 yrs later, you seem to know very little about. Of course this doesn't surprise anyone in this forum, it's common knowledge. And i can excuse this because it is Ms of course, and along with Apple they are the greediest bunch lol. But for the most part you guys feel like chicken who want to fly cross Atlantic. I wish you the best.
Cheers

 

Last edited: Nov 21, 2017

Yes I know it´s form factor, I should have been added NVMe PCI-E x4 there, I only write it there, because I need my PCIe slots for other use. And no offense taken

 

Uhm lol i know its thunderbolt, did i really have to mention that? Everyone knows apollo is thunderbolt.
I wasnt trying to get into how and which motherboards are compatible with the apollo because truth is a motherboard costs little to nothing compared to the apollo. If you are getting an apollo it means you have the budget for these things. If you are building a new system you're obviously going to be building it according to what you are going to use it for right? People who are serious and passionate about music will gladly put out thousands of dollars. So why even talk about that, i know people that will gladly put out an arm or leg for what they are passionate about. Now you are talking about users complaining but truth is its still new, they literally just added support for win10 what do you expect? And you can probably expect them to add more support for win10 users eventually. Also, can i ask why you would assume people are on a cracked OS? When they gave people win10 for free they gave them digital licenses thats attached with the email, which i am still using till this day...

 

@swavenation
My friend, Win10 LTSB is an exclusive Enterprise licence. From the 100 people here who are using LTSB perhaps 5 or 10 are eligible to use it. Hence my criticism.
As for the Apollo, the way you put it, is actually more incriminating for UAD themselves. Because if the people who buy an Apollo are loaded with cash as you imply, they would certainly want a cutting edge computer too. You don't buy a new Ferrari with used tires. I'm sure you get it.
Where is the logic of suggesting a 2 year old computing platform to accompany a 3000 dlrs audio card. Stability? That is crap and you know it of course. They don't "get their hands dirty", like troubleshooting compatibility with the mobos with thunderbolt option around. If i was to justify this, i 'd say it's because their crowd is mainly Apple users. (For a long time the Apollo series was strictly OSX compatible). Instead they let their Windows users do this hard work for them. (If i am lying, read the Windows users testimonies in the UAD forum). Official Windows support implies UAD should get their product working officially with any TB capable mobo, instead of a couple of Gigabyte z170 mobos that work out of the box. Even if i put half the blame on Ms and Intel, this is called a lacking implementation for the Windows platform or a work in progress, beta version if you like, whatever. But its definitely not the support expected for a 3000 dlrs card.
Thnx for listening

 

Last edited: Nov 22, 2017

Well, I don't disagree with anything you wrote, taskforce.

I've recently assembled a PC for a client with UA Apollo and I used Asus Z170-A mbo with an Asus Thunderbolt add-on card, after researching the subject thoroughly on the web. And I set up an OSX 10.12 on it, rather than W10.

 

Oh my, I was not talking about LTSB. I use Win10 Pro. By the way this whole debate started with someone talking down on win10 and then he magically disappeared from the debate lol I was just trying to make a point explaining why Win10 should be considered for your rig incase you wanted to be on PC and you are trying to tell me why people should be considering mac instead. I myself as an Fl studio user, will be picking up the apollo twin mk2 and changing my motherboard because I need the USB-C for thunderbolt fully supported. Also i am a macbook user so yeah thats my situation anyways this convo has been derailed. Sorry i didn't know you thought i was only talking about the apollo 8, it's actually all of the apollo models that are only win10 supported.

 

I'm quite aware of their cards, i have built a number of pcs and macs with Apollos. My quote for the UADs being geared towards the mac crowd was merely an observation, not intended to suggest any platform. As for the win10 pro, i will simply say you are being watched. I have ranted for years against the "evil" that win10 and Ms telemetry etc bring to the table. For the nth time here's an interesting read if you take the time
https://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html
Oh and actually at its current state, win10pro is worse than as described in the article...
Cheers and best of luck

 

Havnt updated in about a year but what are they spying for exactly? I'm sure its just Microsoft doing it for data analytics right... There's many youtube videos that show you how to disable most of the spying stuff it seems. Honestly the whole spying thing probably won't affect me negatively. Been using win10 primarily for fl studio and been on a wave since Thanks though!

 

It was a bit of a struggle to find a MOBO which had PCI slots, but I settled on an Asus Z270-K. It's got 2. I really didn't want to fork over the $250 for a MOTU PCIe 424 card yet. It would have taken my build out of budget.
The struggle was actually me trying to find a board that also had built in Bluetooth, but I scrapped that idea. Impossible to find.

 

I like that Asus Z270-K board so much that if I decide to build an Intel system for myself, I'm going to use that one. Especially for the price it is really good. And since I don't want to part with my RME HDSP audio card. It can be a little tricky to install W7 on it, but it's nothing too bad. Same as with Z170-A, you need to have Intel USB drivers at hand. Best on the hard disk directly. There is an option in BIOS that helps - "simulate USB..." or something similar that can help with installing W7 if you don't have Intel USB drivers handy and when you install it and the Intel USB drivers, you can turn it off in BIOS. It defaults to "off".

Cheers!

 

@SineWave, thanks for the tip. I hope I don't run into too many difficulties.

 

If you have a "late build" of the win7 iso (win 8.1 and win10 will do as well), using the standard MS USB tool to "flash" the iso on a semi-fast usb3 stick, then install from usb, installation takes about 5 mins.EDIT: This means without the need to slip a stick with drivers during installation. Tested on Asus z170-A/usb 3.1 and z270-A, MSI z270 Gaming plus, Gigabyte z270-HD3P. The Gigabyte mobo has also 2 legacy PCI slots, modern feats like USB-C, m2 pci x4 and Optane support and i found it to be among the most decent and stable mobos, especially for its price. Highly hackintosh compatible too if i am not mistaken.
Cheers mate

 

Last edited: Nov 24, 2017

If you run into some difficulties, you can always PM me DigitalDragon. I've become rather experienced with these Asus motherboards.

And there's also our friend taskforce.

Yeah, I also like that Gigabyte motherboard. Haven't had an opportunity to play with it yet, though.

 

Thanks for that, @SineWave! That's helpful with the pre install jitters, lol.
@taskforce, I may just try to do a USB install with it. I've always done the Cd install, but the USB would seem to be easier if you have to slipstream drivers.
I'm actually looking forward to this upgrade now instead of dreading it. It'll be nice not having to wade through the 1,400+ VST's I installed to test and only having what I actually use there. Same for my Nebula libraries. Lean, mean production machine! I should be able to reclaim alot of the SSD's space back.

 

Sure. If anyone gets stuck and i can help, just pm me
@digitaldragon Either way works. I find the USB method to be the fastest. Just stick it in, select boot from usb in the UEFI bios, and off you go. Actually i think all these mobos don't even need to switch the boot sequence. Now, there are some pre-registered late builds of Win7 Pro/Ultimate isos in pirate circulation. Just a reminder, any of them can be easily re-registered afterwards if you have a legit licence. (Unless it's maybe a lite version, where i guess it depends on the level of modifications the modder did on the original iso).

 

I've been using TeamOS' W7 builds lately. I'm a very satisfied customer. It's quite easy to find them on the 'net and they have their own Torrent tracker.

They come with all the latest MS patches, so it makes even more sense to just disable Windows update... no use for it on an audio WS without Internet access, anyway. Still, it is nice to know that W7 is up-to-date. There are some updates that are needed for some ASIO drivers and CPs, like TC and Focusrite. Something to do with SHA signing of drivers... can't remember well. If you don't have that update the newer drivers [2016] won't work, so it's good to have an updated W7.

 

@taskforce, @SineWave, should I be on the hunt for a particular build number? Or would just going to MS, entering my key, and downloading that ISO be the build I need?
Forgive the questions, Last time I installed Windows was just after Windows 7 was released.

 

Well, TeamOS W7 releases are just normal MS releases with all the updates/fixes included, so it can save you a lot of time to just use TeamOS' release. The installation itself is also more streamlined and faster. When you install regular W7 you will spend who knows how much time updating it and all that crap will end up consuming disk space 2x for nothing as per "good old MS tradition". You know, when you install a MS update it gets uncompressed to your OS drive and installed, but they don't erase anything, for a case if you make up your mind and want to roll-back. Those updates can take GBs of space, unnecessarily. So yes, I recommend you to use the latest TeamOS Windows 7. I'm currently using October 2017 release and I've been seeding it, too, until recently.

As taskforce said, this TeamOS release can be activated normally, which is a plus, but they supply you with an activator crack, too.

Oy, taskforce, why do you think Intel Optane is important? It's just a less speedy than RAM disk data caching system. I don't think it's very relevant for audio PCs, but I don't have any experience with it so far. It is relevant for normal users with "normal" usage patterns: browsing, starting xnview to edit a selfie, Word to edit a job application and so on. Have you got some good experiences with it?

 

Last edited: Nov 24, 2017

I work with a build that is exactly 1 year old. Nov 2016. All z170 and z270 boards i mentioned i installed with that build in usb stick in no time. I haven't yet tried on z370 chipsets. I 've seen July and Nov 2017 Win7 builds around but i haven't tried any of them yet. Whether you register with a legit serial or not, disable updates afterwards like Sinewave said. Major reasons for this is Win7 doesn't have any serious updates anyway, and MS Windows Update will always suggest as "Important" their sinister updates which contain their spyware-like Telemetry tech. Recent history shows they are getting better in disguising the description of those updates lol.

Nope. They still expect you to dl Win7, SP1 and all the updates. I know it's absurd lol. Perhaps, MSDN has some Enterprise build that its newer, but AFAIK the answer is no. If someone knows better please correct me.
PS: My all time MS favorite update message went something like this: "You need to install an update for Windows Update to install this update". What's not to love lol

 

Optane is important if you don't have money for a new pci-e x4 m2 ssd and want better speed from your existing hardware. I tested the Optane 32gb on the Gigabyte HD3P, config'd as cache for a normal Sata3 Samsung 850 EVO 500gb boot drive and then with a Seagate Baracuda 4tb as boot drive. Optane learns what you use and starts caching it immediately after the first boot. After i ran various audio soft and plugs and various reboots which all in all took about 20-30 mins for each variation of the installation (SDD or HD), i slammed some metrics to see what was happening as performance seemed to have been boosted up a notch. Typical readings for data read without the Optane for the 850 EVO in my machine was about 530mb/sec and around 160mb/sec for the Baracuda. As soon as Optane had cached enough data, it took the 850 EVO to 700mb/sec and the Baracuda to around 280mb/sec. It also accelerates loading times significantly.
To be honest, the best case scenario for desktop musicians/producers is using it for caching a mechanical drive. I moved 2 tb of Kontakt libs to the 4tb Seagate, opened Kontakt and started loading libs. After the third boot and doing the same thing, the IOPS on my Seagate jumped from a few hundred to a tens of thousand lol. All heavy Kontakt libraries that otherwise take anywhere from 25-30 secs to over 1 minute to load from my Seagate, they were up and running in 5-7 secs tops and it was of course my boot drive as well.
So if you use a ton of libraries and cannot afford a 4tb 850 EVO costing a ridiculous 1500 dlrs, Optane cache memory maybe the answer.
A Baracuda 7200 rpm 4tb is 90 bucks. A Toshiba x300 4tb 7200rpm (alternate pick) is 120 dlrs. Optane 32gb is 77 dlrs in Newegg. So with Optane as cache solution, for a max of 170-200 dlrs you practically get a 7200 rpm 4tb drive that can go as fast as 250-300mb/sec and has almost ssd loading times.
All excited? Hold your horses hehehe...
The very nasty catch in all this is, as the tech is atm, Optane memory cannot cache a secondary drive in Win7, at least afaik. Win10 Creators update gives the selection to use it with a secondary drive using Storage Space Tiering. For Win7 only the boot drive can be accelerated which really sucks and blows. I would 've kept it but i won't part with my dual 960pro raid0 boot partition for an Optane cached mechanical drive even if my Kontakt libs would load faster. Because it would be the only thing loading faster in my sys.
Still, the tech is young, i hope it evolves.
EDIT: You can always use a normal ssd as cache for an HDD to accelerate loading times.
EDIT2: We can all of course give in to the Devil and go Win10 hahaha. I'm still evaluating Ivan's Win10 LTSB lite v2. I saw no outgoing traffic yet which is a most welcome sign.
EDIT3: Using a ramdisk (partitioned from your ram) as cache would significantly raise max read/write and iops in any mechanical drive but in any sys failure and crash/power outage etc, your data is gone, and it may corrupt your cached drive when this happens.

 

Last edited: Nov 25, 2017