By exceptional music, I mean not happy songs. Strongly based on deep and lofty sentiments and not trite stories. Something proselytizing that changes your mind towards music and also your environs.

In mainstream's happy songs you're hearing inefficacious noises that convert you to deadwood. It's their policy to bring up the new generation that always want to make jokes and laugh. In serious music there's no place for joyous laughter. The real Life is more complicated that you can be confronted by unduly wittinesses.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2017

Gotcha.

Noises ineffective in converting me to deadwood? Is such a thing even possible?

 

I never said that.

 

So... emotionally inert?

I probably just don't understand avant garde

 

Last edited: Oct 29, 2017

Why don't you get what I'm saying? Serious music isn't in accord with merriment and joviality.

 

I'm trying. Hold tight, I'm gonna upload some lofty music, making a new vimeo account. Just to make sure, you mean something along these lines?

 

Chay-yah!

 

As promised, an experimental piece by an important artist: Recontextualization by Juxtaposition

 

Wow you made it farther than I did. at .30 It was stop this.

 

More Please! When I started music, I ideated this image in my mind that music should make new viewy worlds and I don't want to be disillusioned into lost causes. By exceptional I mean such things not gathering members' antipathy towards myself.

 

Thanks for sharing. I really like the emotions rising from this track, I can't stop to listen to it.

 

Sorry, I didn't understand what was the relationship between Stockhausen's irony and the Yelli-Baka women yodellers. Stockhausen among many other vanguardists stand out for the practice of strangeness music, so much did they succeed in alienating the ordinary public from the concert halls (yes, the enjoyment of avant garde music is associated only with a very select and specialized audience of listeners, I must say listeners/composers from musical academies-university environment). In the case of Baka singers, there is a deep relationship between such musical practice and its context: Baka music is performed in association with hunting or rituals. This music is based on relations of tonality and in the exploration of certain schematic harmonic/melodic/rhythmic patterns that are repeated, developed and varied (patterns are maintained so that they can be recognized, not disfigured, or hybridized to the point of being unrecognizable). Further, the greatest wealth from of Baka singers is in the vocal technique, in the polyphonic and polyrhythmic texture and in the participation of the members of the community. Repeating: participation of community members. Again, what is the relationship between these two musical practices? They are totally different things with totally different ends...

So Stockhausen's music is exceptional to you... ok! it may be for you, but surely for many people it is not!

 

Last edited: Oct 30, 2017

Some good view points about Experimental/Avant-Garde music and their differences and roles within society:
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/4283714

 

Isn't that the case for all music? I mean, Mom prefers Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, and Killldozer leaves her totally cold. The wider the (intended) demographic, the more universal the product needs to be. Universality implies compromises :\


в такую шальную погоду нельзя доверяться волнам

 

Last edited: Oct 31, 2017

My dear foster911, you seem to be a smart person and some here demonstrate much appreciation for you, so I'll explain to you one more time:

I have nothing against avant garde music itself (I like many art music composers from 20th and 21st centuries), but against the ideology that accompanies avant-garde music. I have a musical background and I come from a school that focuses on composing/teaching directed to avant-garde pratices. There, many professors made jokes with popular music: most of them came with the usual litany of saying that mainstream songs are useless (ask an ethnomusicologist and he/she will tell you that there are songs for almost all tastes and practices - is it not the case of avant-garde music itself, which is peripheral to standard listening practices?), that current genres and styles are absolutely decadent, and that even one of the few strongholds of the actual orchestral music (film music) is nothing more than prostitution (although there were still a few professors who used hybrid elements extracted from popular music in their works, but these were "hidden", for fear of legal proceedings).

As I had written to you in another post,

“What I do not really like about avant-garde ideologies is that they seek to assert themselves by depreciating everything that comes before them (what Bourdieu called struggle, conflict among the actors in the field in search of validation, or avant garde ideology validation). when the avant-garde advocates start with this chat, I have no patience at all. (...) In the end, simplifying, they defend the diffusion of musical practices with little cognitive salience (based, sometimes, on almost total absence of musical patterns repetition - texture/timbre, harmony, rhythm/meter, melodies that change every 1-3 measures - as in the case of the new complexity, so to speak, music rather irregular) and when the common listener refuses to listen to this type of music, they say that the listener lacks intellectual property for such unique "listening party" (based on a very specialized listening practice” - as if most of the usual listeners had to rely on the validation of the taste expressed by a minority who prefers the unusual, break in paradigms and innovations, 24 hours a day!)

I have no doubt about the role of avant-garde music... in extrapolating boundaries! But everything has limits, especially for the common listeners (who are not the least bit interested in this kind of pratice). So, they aren't idiots who doesn't understand the minutiae of musical structuralism. They simply prefer repertoires that have high index of cognitive salience (tonal/modal music based on repetition, variation and contrast of musical parameters - or simply music composition grounded on genre/style, not in hidden layers of structuralism/hybridization).

Again, there is nothing in common between Stockhausen' segregationism and the Yelli-Baka women yodellers chants, either in functional and associative terms or even in relation to the compositional materials.

So although I really enjoy the work of some composers of avant garde music, I do not consider this genre/style above any other' cos there is no supremacy based on self-isolation in relation to other musical communities and the general public.

 

Last edited: Oct 31, 2017

"For everyone tht asks how I get my hair cut, show them this pic!" ???

 

Isn't that the case for all music?

Not necessarily ... what about the diffusion of genres such as polka, which still enchants people in Europe and in the Americas? The same can be said of rock, jazz or samba, as genres that are performed/consumed in several countries around the world.

You are quoting some phrases that relate to advertising/consumer goods market thinking. Yes, both sectors depends heavily on consumer behavior and there are musical genres associated with this (those that are on top-shelf for some time in the Music industry (such as pop, R&B, soul, among others). Using genre/style patterns guarantees the categorization of your music in a certain semantic frame, but it doesn't imply that your music will be excellent... musical genres ensure recognition of musical patterns but this is no guarantee of anything: you still have to create/arrange/combine these patterns and you have to have some good local area network for your work may gain attention from audience, music community and/or producers in general. Again, if you use a featured genre/style, your chances of attracting attention from a particular receiving instance are greater, but there is a whole lot more complex stuff covering what is simply called "communicability."

In addition, you place an image that symbolizes the predominance of american music and its influence in the globalized world. I don't like this overvaluation to the detriment of what is local/regional and I think the crisis in the music industry is due to this exhausted model, but still, like them, we should use the best available technologies and utilize them to produce our own local music (whether it from anywhere) and break with the political-economic foundations that make us colonies to be exploited, especially when there are plutonium, oil and natural resources that interest them. So, I believe that artists should immerse themselves in their own local musical roots and combine them with the best in world music genre/styles, for projection purposes (if this is the intention). But this is totally different from creating a kind of music in which there are no salience based on patterns (no repetition, no reference to recognizable genres and styles, even if hybridized, superposition of several layers generating complex textures or simply a state of flux that refers to music always in constant transformation).

Reinforcing, no problem in doing this unless you want to "communicate" to broad public specters. Likewise, it is also a problem when avant garde composers lie that they are not concerned with public reaction, but when they see the public's low receptivity to their works (for the average listener, music always in constant transformation is something almost annoying!), they insult them, saying they were alienated and stupid (I saw famous composers and many of my colleagues saying this sort of thing that put smiles on the faces of many of my avant garde professors). So, in this last case, there is clearly a contradiction in the sense of non-acceptance that genres and styles select audience samples 'cos there is a directing of expectations due to uses and customs associated with genres or the strangeness that they can provoke. This will happen whether avant garde music composers like it or not, without consulting their will.

Intelligent composers use/used this network of expectations and associations either for innovation or for continuity of traditions (because not every composer has an obligation to be an innovator), while others have agreed to fight against windmills (or the cognitive nature and psychophysiological processes related to human perception that influence the creation/activation of memories, senses and emotions)...

 

Last edited: Oct 31, 2017