Hi
I'm trying to make a remix (part of a song that isn't dance with dance beat).
Problem is, I can't seem to get the original track in the BPM that will work with my beat.
I don't know the BPM of the original and I let cubase guess it, then import it in musical mode and let it be in my track bpm (let's say 137 BPM)

That doesn't sound good.
Any other way? I tried time strech it bit by bit according to the bass drum midi I put in each bar but still, nothing good.

Is there a good way to remix? (If it was just the vocals it will be easy, but it's the whole song, drums and melody)

Thank you!

 

In FLStudio there's such a thing as Slicer - which will take an audio file and split it into slices, dumping to MIDI. You can then reconstruct the loop using MIDI - or you can reorder it any way you like. Basically it's splitting a sample into lots of little ones which are mapped to an individual note. Play the notes in order (quickly) and you'd get your original loop.

Sometimes the results can be very good, but obviously works best with clear and simple source, like drumbeat. But I find it easily the best way to get loops to fit different BPM. (Same principle as REX files? Stylus RMX, etc?)

I don't know if Cubase has similar, but surely there are other VSTs which will do it.

If there's a better method, I'd love to hear it. :D

 

You must determine the tempo of the original track. You cannot sample it correctly without knowing the exact BPM. Grab a stopwatch...count how many beats in 60 seconds. Or, count how many beats in 30 seconds and multiply by 2, etc...There are many different ways to determine the tempo even including apps for your smart phone. I can't stress enough how important this is, especially when sampling. If the tempos are too far apart, you will most likely have to rewrite the melodies in your softsynth of choice. You can only time-stretch so far before you start adding unwanted transients to your samples.

 

In the past i liked to determine the tempo via wavelab but it would/should work with any DAW.

Best indicator for the tempo is the Beat, second (mostly) is the Bass then it goes harder. To get the BPM of a song just via acapella could be real hard up to impossible. As you have the Beat this should be no problem except the tempo is changing.

First i would cut up the wav file so there is no space before the first note, take a close look to the wav(es), try to find repetitions. Change the bpm and take another look. The longer the wav fits with the measurement the closer you are with the real tempo. By the way, to get as closest as possible to the right tempo it is better to use a DAW which could handle BPM with three values after the comma - for exampple 134.998 BPM


Greets,
Jack

 

I usually do it by ear and eyes with a click track or little cow bell loop (midi).
But Cubase already has another function to help you do this another way for a long time.
Look here:
http://www.espace-cubase.org/anglais/page.php?page=flcubsxkb12
And here:
http://www.espace-cubase.org/anglais/page.php?page=flcubtempolive

But all of this and more you can find in the manual.
Hope this helps,
Cheers.

 

134.998 BPM

Now there's an eye (ear?) for detail! :D

My own method of manually finding tempo goes much like yours. But at least for drumbeats and nothing too involved and mushy, slicing works a treat and is waaaaaay faster. It does tend to introduce some mush though (transients?)

I'd have thought any vst granuliser type thing could be used - though you might get some mush and stutter, which could be good or bad.

Cutting up the original audio file seems the way to go though, whatever method one uses. I find it all time consuming, fiddly, irritating work whereas auto-slicing is fast and funky, even if imperfect.

 

Yes it may sounds funny but i mean it serious. Don't get me wrong just want to explain.

It depends what are you comparing. If you only compare one bar i doubt you will hear or see the difference between 135 and 134.998 but if compared to a complete song - in some cases (where the song has that strange tempo) you have to see and hear really bad if can't recognize a difference. And there is big benefit (when you have determined the tempo (more) exactly) you don't have to cut anymore - everything is in sync the complete song. Even with this knowledge i started a to determine the tempo, but with a DAW that has only two values after the comma. For first 16 Bars it works fine but you can see and hear it more and more the more bars have reached. At the End let say about 140 bars there is only a difference about 1/8th note.. with three values after the comma you decrease the difference to less or may none ms.

And by the way if you have found out the tempo is around (not exactly) 130 BPM it isn't that much more work to determine the tempo more exactly...


Greets,
Jack

 

Hahahaha G String !!

And YES ! I've had those odd things too ( 134.998 BPM )!
Zooming in and matching things up ( midi and audio )...
By ear and eye...

Although;
Cutting things up, is what Cubase does with hitpoints, and Cubase is what Timothy seems to be working with already...
If an audio loop is irregular ( let's say, a live recording ), I'd might think that, that's the way to go..
But in any other case, any of those things will work just as fine.

Usually I'd be sent one or multiple mp3s or something ( another problem, 'cause if you'd make a loop in wav and bounce it as mp3, you'll lose a couple of milliseconds, weird enough ) given the Bar number,match them up, and have to record on that, to send it back as Wav 48/24.
Thank g.o.d. that Cubase has the function to paste in that missing (Mp3) time as well.
Don't know about other DAWS though...( have worked with them, but not doing these kind of things ).
Can you make things easier on musicians, please ??

Cheers buddy !
Hahahaha


Aah Jack,
But this page says it all in Cubase SX ( at least ), though things've gotten improved, but I use it scarcely. Only once, as a matter of fact.
http://www.espace-cubase.org/anglais/page.php?page=flcubtempolive
And if you are working with audio loops and samples, can be frustrating sometimes...

It's all in the manual.
But be prepared to go bald, by tearing out some of your hair...


Good question Timothy !
As I work with audio and midi, I've stumbled upon this issue various times.
I don't use loops myself (but sometimes sent to me as mp3s, trying to figure out the total Bpm, since the sender has no clue..), and so can imagine the hassle...
In Cubase it's hitpoints, and can use that for irregular/Live recordings.
So in working with Sampled loops or so, you'll have to timestretch or cut off accordingly, when needed...
Other Daws, I don't know...

Cheers !

 

Check on You Tube, I can bet there is great amount of videos on that topic ;)


Reading answers that was given already that's it my man, have nothing to add new

 

Thanx Xsze !

I'd like to see this problem being addressed in every daw.


Because it's a burden to many !
And not only to those, using loops etc..
I'd be facing this problem, just by wanting to use midi. (change sounds on the fly..).
Etc... etc..
Found my way through cubase, but in any other situation...
I'd be dumb headed...


Because, if I'm right....
It is already built in into your daw.

Any help here with other daws, would help a lot of folks !!

 

hehe

I'm certain that .002 does make a difference. I'm just saying you surely have much greater patience than I do - no bad thing. ;)

I would just get it matched as close as I could (as close as my patience allows) and then cut up the source audio into as small chunks as relevant (again, dependent on my limited patience) and then dump into instances of Slicer - which should be able to manage small discrepancy in bpm.

Fast (and dirty I suppose). But if you lack patience as I do, it works a treat. :D

 

Really have no problems in Logic at all, there is even couple of ways to determine tempo and match it right and flex time is really great also

I watched bunch of tutorials concerning Logic even before I opened it, so never had any issues with anything really, because that was my mistake in the past, I was trying to crack everything by myself and learn the things I need the most, but that's the wrong approach, when you know everything your DAW offers you immediately start to use everything and your workflow is really boosted because of it.

 

Dudes !
You're all great !
Hope all we have helped Timothy a bit here..

G String, it is just because 9 out of 10 times, I have to work with stuff, nobody knows the Bpm of.
Sometimes as worse as at being a live recording ( only once, thank "well"... ).
In these cases I'll just use my ears and eyes, but if it gets complicated, I like to use those hitpoints in cubase.
Not sure about Logic, but if Xsze would like to shed a light..
Would be helpful to those in need ( in some cases, maybe, me included ! ).

If anyone has some more help on finding the BPM in any daw or 3rd party programs; it'll be a help to anyone !

Thanx guys !!
You are awesome !

 

I use Traktor DJ (which is a live DJing program) to find out the BPM of a song, (adjust manually if required), then slow it down outside a DAW, or inside a DAW when I remix.

 

Thank you all!