so... helix native is here, what do you think?

Discussion in 'Software' started by pelao, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Jaymz

    Jaymz Audiosexual

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  2. Bill Vkerchi?

    Bill Vkerchi? Kapellmeister

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    Well, the sound of the amp is basically the sound of the electric guitar. I don't want it to sound like some specific brand because i'm such a brainwashed brand snob. I just want it to sound good.
    One of my main issues with amp sims, even with Kemper, is that the longer you listen to the guitar part, the less you wanna hear it. Because it's quite static. It's less apparent with Kemper, and they nail the sound pretty damn close.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  3. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Got your point. I believe you that this is/could be difficult for guitarists. That's why I'm happy not to be one.
     
  4. I only really need a software solution those times when it is late at night and I have the urge, the other times I'm all Vox'd out with the AC15C1 or AC4TV., although there is still no way I can let rip at high volume lest my neighbors come at me knives in hand and ready for business. Let me tell you, that little AC4TV is great at 1/4 watt and much louder than what you might expect, especially if it put it through the 12 inch speaker of the AC15, and as well rounds out the bottom end that is lost because of those last two inches from the smaller 10" speaker. I dig the Helix and think it might be a tad more to my liking than the Pod Farm. One thing that I really like about the Helix is that it seems to me quieter than other software guitar amp stuff. It might be a little on the expensive side but probably will come down in cost eventually. The thing that makes me shake my head in bafflement is that it does not include a tuner that comes with this otherwise fine bit if kit.
     
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  5. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    here is real amp cab and speakers and mic, listen close to the tiny detail 3d texture the blossom, you can hear the paper of the speakers in the pick attack this is what it all about for me.


    every aspect of sound is rich and detailed but fat, you can hear the electrons the electricity gong through the tubes that create the sound, you can hear the paper of the speakers, you can here a tiny bit of the mic picking up the room but it gives it 3d.
    listen how creamy the soldano gets with the delay on it godly tone!

    listen to this beefed up classic!
    listen to the Kerrang!
    when he cranks the gain on this one you can hear the paper of the speakers real detail on the palm mutes! amazing!

    the clean channel with effects is awesome with this one! how 3d the sound is!
     
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  6. dazz

    dazz Ultrasonic

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    "you can hear the paper of the speakers in the pick attack this is what it all about for me." << LOL ......(WAFW)

    Im Pretty sure Sound on Sound got the verdict on it right...
     
  7. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    Or...... you clearly don't know guitar tones. If you want to be an engineer you should learn the tones of instruments you don't play
     
  8. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    Have you tried the Henry Olonga Hi-rez amp IR's? They are not simply cab IRs but amp IR's with pick attack preserved. It was available for free a while ago.
    What non guitarist don't understand is: when the tone is great, it is easier to perform at a higher level.

    I have tried a Digitech GSP1101 thru a tube amp and cab. It does sound very good. I was using the 1101 as a efx unit but it doubled as my backup amp. As with the Helix, loading custom IRs did sound much better than the stock cabs.
     
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  9. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    No need to be aggressive mate, maybe you only got me wrong. I didn't want to deride any guitarist, why should I? I just meant that I benefit from the fact that I don't feel the need to look for best or most authentic hardware simulation, I just can focus on the sound I try to achive, that's all. And belive me, this can be a benefit

    And since I'm not a guitarist I will never know guitar tones as good as a guitarist, how could I?
     
  10. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    And of course I understand that. It's the same with every VSTi (or any other kind of hardware or it's simulation). Every keyboarder, drummer, bassist, mixing engineer, singer... will confirm that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  11. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    Not aggressive. Just pointing out some truth.
    You might end up jamming with a great guitar player at some point in your musical journey.
    Try 7 tracks mic'ed and 7 amp sims tracks. Maybe you can't tell the difference but 99.999% of musicians, engineers and producers will.
     
  12. rosesbyrosex

    rosesbyrosex Member

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    they' re not going to update it, Native Helix is the new technology that will replace POD FARM 2, also PF2 has not been updated in years because the software works very well.
     
  13. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    just this part bro, "....I just meant that I benefit from the fact that I don't feel the need to look for best or most authentic hardware simulation,.."

    the thing with "hardware simulation" is that, us engineers and producers think about them and use them in such a way as how they effect the signal we feed it, NOT looking for "best or most authentsic hardware"
    here is an example. say a plugin claims to be a "authentic tape machine from 1962" , what that means is it will have a soft 1:2;1 compression with a very soft knee, a soft amount of clipping to represent the tubes and transistors, a high frequency rolloff above 10khz by 6 db, an an algorythm to have the input signal control wow and flutter which is a type of chorus and flanger and finally tiny amount of pitch shifting by 1 or 2 cents they package all these subtle effects under one generic name " authentic tape simulation from 1962" and we use the plugin to give the list of things i explained, its jsut an example but im just trying to explain that we use any plugin based on what it does to the signal, NOT by the name or NOT by the graphic image coded on the plugin.
    I hope that helps just in the sense of what our perspective is, we have ZERO expectations or assumptions that any plugin which exists , is anything similar in any way to a real piece of hardware type.(whether amp sims, tube eq or preamp, transistor desk, or tape machine)

    it gives us users of the plugins a way to load one plugin instead of having to build all those effects from scratch ( because we still have to load 25 analog modeling plugins)
    AND it gives the designers the ability to get creative in how they hint at what the plugin is actually doing.( we still have to load it up to test it and see what is actually doing to the signal though)
    if we look at helix it is the same way. say you had " 1967 marshall super lead"
    you have a bandpass eq cutting lows and highs that feeds into stage 1 softclipping, next eq and volume next stage 2 soft clipping eq, volume control on knob, next tonestack ( which is eq, soft clipping bandpass and level) then you have soft compression and clipping represent phase invertor , finally algorthm that is mix of tape sim and transistor sim for power-amp to get rubbery if pushed hard. the signal flow for this one is mostly clean until it hits the poweramp then the main distortion coems from the poweramp which is those listed combinations .

    in a nutshell the designer looks at the real peice of equipment in question to be modelled, they break it inot 5 or 6 main sections (input, preamp,tonestack, poweramp,transformer,rectifier, speaker) and then use a few methods a few types of effects to create each "section" then connect the sections to make the whole plugin simulation.
    but the whole time no matter what piece of "analog modeled" gear it is, it is just blocks of simple digital effects connected together chained together.
    this is very different from how REAL analog equipment works in real life, you would have to break a real peioce of gear into hundreds of sections to model it where the results where identical to the real thing, we just don'r have computers that fast yet. anything that is "modeled" is just the designers being artistic instead of saying "plugin 1 A list of 25 effects in this order)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  14. SlayermanGR

    SlayermanGR Ultrasonic

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    Tried most of the factory presets that come bundled with it and I am not impressed at all (yeah, presets are never good but you can always hope that a company will provide some high quality presets, but this is certainly not the case here).
    Some clean & ambient tones were cool but its high-gain tones sound so plastic to my ears. A direct comparison with Amplitube (Boogie Mark IV) or Kazrog makes it sound like an overpriced toy.
    Although I'm willing to give it one more chance using external IRs (which ought to make a big difference)...
     
  15. Triphammer

    Triphammer Producer

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    Line 6 themselves said this to the naysayers, (I am one):


    Yeah, no sorry. I think the GUI blows....and I'm not alone. THIS is the best GUI they could come up with?? Even 'ol Gear Box had a better GUI IMHO.....REALLY dislike this one. The GUI is amateurish compared to even LINE6's earlier work. Symbols & sliders?? WTF?? It looks like something cobbled together in Synthedit. Tiny little pics of the hardware that can't be accessed and/or tweaked?? Super tiny text that causes eye strain after 10-20 minutes.And $400 for non-Helix hardware owners?? Good luck with that. IMHO there are much better values in VST ampsims....that are ALSO standalone. And no 32bit version?

    I posted my opinions on the Line6 Forums and naturally the fanbois got their panties in a big wad.

    So I let 'em have it with both barrels.......

    "If you like the GUI....fine. I'm happy for you. I don't. I've been DEEPLY involved with the development of both hardware and software ampsims and VST FX development since DAY 1. Some of you were probably in diapers then.

    You're entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. I've owned many Line6 products....I still have an X3 I use on occasion. But quite frankly, I have various hardware & software products that IN MY OPINION sound better and and are more user friendly than Line6 products. That being said, I will admit that Helix is a step forward both in terms of sound and hardware/software integration and the patch handling system is
    somewhat improved.

    If Line6 had gotten on the ball and made the Pod X3 compatible with PodFarm2 they MIGHT have kept my business.....but no they NEVER released a dedicated editor and forced us to use the already very outdated GearBox. I've moved on and I'm glad I did.

    Have fun with your toys boys."

    Just my 2 cents.....if you like it....I'm happy for you. Personally, I'm pretty much done with Line6.
     
  16. Yea, that sweet Friedman sounds 3D and it is only being mic'd with one SM57! Yessir Brah, dahts qualiteeee!

    That is for sure my favorite sound from Amplitube, the Boogie Mark IV, and one that I always listen to when trying out different software solutions because I had the head with a 4x10 Mesa cab. Memories...of the way they were.......
     
  17. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    totally agreed, I never doubt that. I just said I'm happy not to feel the need to have a hard- or software simulation that sounds exactly like the original being imitated, so I don't have to care about this detail, that's all.

    Overall the developers are getting closer all the time but still not enough for those in the know.
     
  18. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    a nasty rating for this @BudSpencer ? WTF
    Are you arguing engineers should NOT learn about instruments they don't play or does No Avenger truly understand guitar tones with his anti education stance?
     
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  19. BudSpencer

    BudSpencer Producer

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    I consider that understanding guitar tones are important, yes, but understanding basic conversational tones are even more essential. My rating wasn't personal, but I find that the patronizing tone in your post was really uncalled for (and it contributes to the constant "drama atmosphere" that insists to seep into this forum, week in week out). I think @No Avenger is entitled to his opinion (specially about audio/music production), irregardless of mine. Or yours. And to state that his views on music are inferior to ours is something that I, quite frankly, find "nasty".

    But, seriously, don't take this post (or my rating) as an attack on you as a person. I'm merely expressing dissatisfaction with this particular opinion. I'm pretty sure we can agree on many other topics and points of view. Best of luck, mate!
     
  20. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    @BudSpencer
    for someone that constantly complains about drama ........wants to start one......the irony

    Please put me on ignore. this is the second time
     
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