Hi,
Should these plugins in the chain be of different types? Like the first limiter be from wave, the second from fabfilter so and so forth? or they can be of the same kind? like the first limiter be from waves (Threshold -5db) then again the second limiter be the same limiter used right before ( threshold -1db )
I have checked out plugins available on Audioz software section, there are hell lot of them out there. Can you recommend some reliable stuff? Cause one gets confused by these fancy plugins each from different company. Like do you recommend any set of software consoles and plugins to use?

 

There is actually a huge difference between normalizing and limiting. "Normalizing" is when you use an algorithm to determine the peak point on your audio track's waveform and tell that algorithm to boost the waveform until that peak is 0 dB (or wherever you choose to set it). Normalizing a track to 0 dB only increases its overall volume so that its peak point is at 0 dB. It doesn't actually alter the sound or change dynamics in any way, it just increases the waveform's overall volume to wherever you set it.

"Limiting" is a whole different process. A simple limiter has a ceiling, usually 0 dB (or wherever you set it), through which no audio can pass. Think of it as a hard ceiling. If you stick a simple limiter on your audio track, you can boost or amplify your audio as far upward (i.e. - as loud) as you want and it will never go over 0 dB. However, the louder your amplify your audio through a limiter, the more of that audio is literally being crushed against that ceiling. You can turn that original waveform, with its dynamic peaks and valleys, into a solid black bar. Your softest parts will now be exactly as loud as your loudest parts. But even a little bit of limiting will change your dynamics, as you're still flattening your audio peaks while simultaneously bringing up the rest of the audio.

Think of audio in three dimensions. Reverb makes things closer or further away. Panning makes things go from side to side. EQ is your top to bottom. Using your DAW's stock EQ plug, set up a HPF for around 60 Hz on every track that isn't your kick drum or bass. If you're using an auxiliary track to send reverb or delay to, make sure there is an EQ plug inserted after the reverb or delay plug set up to HPF about 150 Hz. You should be able to hear things a lot more clearly already. You may even be able to turn down your bass and kick, which will balance your mix out a lot better.

If you still insist on using a limiter plug, make sure you're using the most basic one possible (the original Waves Maximizer is the best basic limiter plugin on the market). They all essentially work the same, but the spiffier ones -- specifically, the ones emulating analog gear -- will add harmonics, saturation and round off transients, which will definitely alter your sound.

 

Last edited: Sep 14, 2017

i don't want to add to the confusion so i'll keep it to the point and simple

magic word : gain staging

the relative volume of each audio track

it will be a mystery until you have practice gainstaging enough that you will have de-mystifie'ed it

 

One limiter should be plenty. Some mixers swear by using multiple compressors, a compressor and a limiter, or a master EQ, compressor and a limiter ... but in your case, if you insist on boosting your output with a limiter plug, one will do just fine, and look for as basic of a limiter as possible (the one I mentioned, Waves' Maximizer, literally has two controls). The limiter plug that came bundled in your DAW will also work as well. This will allow you to figure out how a limiter actually works before getting caught up in extra controls that you don't need for the task.

 

I usually have to turn to limiting when someone has submitted a stereo mix for me to add some mastering sweetness to.
If it's one of my own mixes, I try very hard to minimize the need for limiting. Which I'm usually working with rock band recordings which obviously could differ. Also, part of my finalizing workflow is to run through a VCA hardware compressor and sum through an analog desk which I mix into as I'm working.
The hardware seemed to add to the depth, not subtract.

 

hello fine sir,

"Should these plugins in the chain be of different types?"



yes, in order to get a variation in the tiny detail of what they each add, also have a volume to adjust BEFORE the signal hits your chain so just the tip of the transients hits the chain. the secret is in the tiny fine grain texture, like when you hear static you hear the tiny fine grain going all over the place it is the tiny fine grain that goes wrong when doing too much with a single plugin we have to pay special care to it in audio .





"there are hell lot of them out there. Can you recommend some reliable stuff? Cause one gets confused by these fancy plugins each from different company. Like do you recommend any set of software consoles and plugins to use?[/QUOTE]"

get a couple bigger "packs" to have variety and enough to do your jobs
example waves, steven stale ,fabfilter, ik multimedia, tone boosters, etc. they get updated and they add more after a while you can get enough to build a plugin database and get used to each one then from there add more whener you might need to.

just a tip, it is possible to get mix louder than anyone could ever want without using compressors and limiters at all! you have to experiment with the idea doing a little each plugin , and working with the tiny fine grain even if that means buying expensive monitors to actually hear what is happening in the tiny detail, because cheap computer speakers or home stereos have zero ability to hear the tiny detail, the speakers change the sound
here is example of monitors,
http://www.equatoraudio.com/New-Improved-D5-Studio-Monitors-Pair-p/d5.htm

for $500 with the equator D5 monitors ,you can hear the detail that $5000 monitors would give you at the fraction of the cost. ( but not as good as $50,000 monitors, and $500,000 monitors would be clearer than all the cheaper ones combined.$5,000,000 audiophile mastering speakers would give you a sound that is clear as hearing in real life. a piano recording on them would be identical as the person laying a piano next to your ear.
read this article about audiophile speakers , learn about what makes expensive speakers how they different than cheap ones, that will change the way you look at making music.
http://audiophilereview.com/audiophile/the-25-ultimate-audiophile-speakers-of-all-time.html

 

Last edited: Sep 14, 2017

another possibility could be to split your "master" Track.
dividing depth and non depth sounding ones.
then apply compression/limiting to only 1 chain, and to the sum only a very! tiny bit to glue it together.
and proper gain staging is a must.

 

Start you mixing /composing session with the limiter already on your stereo bus and mix into it...See if that helps

 

want solution? try 48000 instead of 44100

 

Hi, I`m with reliefsan ...
I take a good bet your per track mix is overdriven.
Use a VU meter per track and you`ll see the needle must be in deep red.

There should be an explanation of mine what proper gainstaging is somewhere here.

And btw ... NEVER use a limiter at the stage of mixing !

 

I agree -- the OP either recorded the individual tracks too hot or he has his VIs' individual output volumes too high when bouncing down the mix. Also, I think having a "mastering chain" on the main fader is actually a good idea ... after you achieve a basic mix you're happy with. And assuming that you know what you're doing when you set up the "mastering chain" after that. I do it so I can get an idea of what my mixes will sound like after they're mastered, so I always set up the chain with the most basic and generic compressor and limiter possible, with just enough of both to get it in the ballpark of what I assume the final mastering levels will be like with no "analog coloration" or EQ or anything. That helps me get rid of basic problems like too much or too little reverb, too much low end, drum tracks that may be too loud or not loud enough, guitar solos or shrill synths that might get bumped up into digital clipping with high frequencies, sibilance on vocals, etc. Your mixes are always affected by being run through a professional mastering chain, no matter how good they are, and even more so when it gets pushed through a mastering chain and a broadcast limiter (or whatever output chain is being used for film or TV, if you're scoring a movie or a video of some kind).

 

dood, i know your pain. you get a mix sounding all proper and then you try to make it as "loud" as industry standard and you lose some dynamics etc.. i use less than 5db gain reduction and i still hate how it sounds.. most of my stuff i send to a mastering engineer so i send waveforms that don't hit the ceiling, if its recreational try to get desired loudness via mix and eq before the brickwall limiter. Group sum tips can help but honestly i've changed my mastering style so many times after reading this forum i'll probably wake up tomorrow and say something different.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2017

The first 2 sentences make sense.

 

it's fine to use a limiter if it's a quick master/bounce. but if you are serious about quality, never put anything on the master during mixdown and go for a -12db peak at the loudest passage, then you will have plenty of headroom during mastering. use a mixtool to drop the level on the master or just pull the fader back. don't worry if the mix is too low, you can boost that later during mastering. hope this helps

 

Ehm, it depends, if the clipping display/LED is postfader this is the worst thing you can do because you won't recognize an input clipping in the mainout/master which is deadly for mastering.

 

Yes, I mix into a masterbus chain from the get-go just to confirm it is plausible to do so.

The issue I hear on MaXe is he`s after loudness and that`s not what mixing is.
If he is mixing into a masterbus chain it would be for the wrong reason
and using a limiter anywhere, with this understanding of mixing, is lethal to any given mix.
(The reply is tailored to MaXe).

So, first things first,
save the channels with proper gainstaging and place a VU meter into groups/stems and master.
Just by keeping an eye to the meters,
recording/printing and mixing then have the required foundation to define a mix to taste.

Example:
If one looks at his mix, the low drums are oustanding loud and forced on transients.
In contrast,
because VU meters indicate this overshoots in any channel, one can come to the same assertion
but is asked to use different techniques i.e. using parallel distortion and or parallel compression.
The low drums stay in a good proportion to the rest of the instruments and are well defined yet.

The approach is different then, it`s not to make something louder
it`s about determining interspersion and pressure to rule loudness.

Nice weekend all ...

 

No, I totally agree -- you have to mix for balance, not volume, although, as a catch-22, you also have to mix to a certain volume (too low is almost as bad as too hot).

 

Interesting answers so far.
I see some different problems in your track. You are fighting, and everybody else trying to fix it, the high transient percussion sitting in front of the mix with the synth at the back. You will never achieve anything without sacrificing first. Somebody probably answered this on the way but you have to decide what is front and what not. If percussion is what you want, you will have to kill the transients to achieve some loudness. Thats how it works. Less dynamics, more level. Or you mix for cinema. Then you are lucky.
You push the limiter hitting the percussion, it will automatically bring forward the synth.
If you really need those cans hitting in front,EQ the synth. More in the back means less highs, probably less lows. Make it thin. Or thinner. OR less wide? Make the percussion wide, and the synth mono....
Decide how big is your imaginary room for this mix, what is more important...
Experiment with tape saturation. It works a little different than limiter, it allows you to "push"more transients in.

2 cents