When it is a 9th chord.

 

And the answer is.....
A thirteen Chord is never a thirteen Chord, Aint no such animal as a 13 chord.

 

How can that be, you may ask?

 

Cause you're just playing the scale?

 

In all the fingering diagrams for 13th do, in fact omit the 11th, for example C in the chord of G13, the musical notation above those diagrams includes it. And so if the musical notation for a 13 chord includes the 11, but all the fingering diagrams for it omit it, what can we conclude about jazz music in general and 13 chord in particular?

That as a musical form whose signature chord is the fraudulently overstated 13, jazz music is a whole goldern lot of a whole goldern lot less than it appears to be.

 

Last edited: Jun 21, 2017

The 2 Cardinal Laws of jazz composition: That not simple chords be used, even when the notes in the chords being used actually are those of simpler chords, the 2nd is to maintain the illusion of sophistication and mistery coveted by both fans and composers of Jazz music, and emblemized by the fraudulence of the 13 chord.

 

The notation for a "13" chord, honestly set down, and omitting the 11th, G13 let's say, would be "G9 add13", and while you will never refer to it as a simple chord, unlike a "13" chord, which can have as few as three or as many as six notes (or seven if you modify the 11th so that it's not really an 11th anymore), and whose very reason of existence is obfuscation, a 9 add13 chord, just like a 7 Augmented 5 chord, is exactly what it claims to be and not one fucking thing more or less.

 

Outstanding.

 

Some may find difficult to agree.

 

What are fingering diagrams? I play piano.. I get the score (notes) and that's it - no diagrams
Can you spell the (nonexistent?) G13 for me like G, B, D, F#,..

Just to be sure that I get you.

 

I'm not saying that those chords called 13th dont exist because they obviously exist as the world of music accepted those chords and gave them a name, the point here is, are they really "13th" chords? or are they just an embellised version of a combination of 2-3 simpler chords?

 

I'd be willing to bet that the fingering for G13 sus4 #5 b9 #11, whether for the guitar or for the keyboard, leaves out at least one of the two notes left over after you extract the Db Major 9 from it (the F being common to both chords) And i'd bet too, that the same would be the case with any of the many other incredibly elaborate chords commonly billed as "jazz chords". But don't just take my word for it; prove it to yourself (or not) with, say, C13 Sus4 #5 #9 #11

Is it consistent with reality to call any seven-note chord a 13th solely on the basis of three of its notes?

 

Whatever you call it, it still needs more cowbell.

 

See here is the thing.. if you forget the fingering (whatever that is.. sounds kinky ;)) and naming the chords in certain way, you can just write whatever you want on the blank mus paper - it may end sounding jazzy or Irish folk...

We all know that's a must!

 

Use simple chords they are less confusing

 

Last edited: Jun 22, 2017

[ Wrong, couldn't delete ]

 

Last edited: Jun 22, 2017

When it's either a tertian, or an extended.

 

I would have said when you reheat some food up in the microwave 14 times, and on the 14th time the food explodes and disintegrates. SO:-

the 13th COOLED, but there was no 13th Chord, OR 14th Cooled for that matter!

 

aw shucks is the game over already?

i was gonna say in the event of a knowledge deficit emergency like this everyone on the forum should have @foster911 on speed dial...he'll know for sure

(me and 'The Fos' were just like a couple of old)

 

The notes my girlfriend gives me each night in desperation