Many similarities here to my workflow. Charly is a tube emulation, I gather. I add that tube sweetness by running the insert going to my outboard compressor then through a tube preamp.

Haha, I knew I had seen that avatar before!

 

sorry , I didnt know you were using that one, good taste though.

 

Yeah ! I think it's a very nice pair... Of headphones of course
And @Beth kindly gave me a nice pair of glasses to go with it.

 

Last edited: May 13, 2017

Try to play with some tape emulations, i think all that you are asking for pointing straight to Satin by U-He.
You have the control of all those values, hiss, crossover etc.
You can try some minimal values at each stem depend on the content and then for a nice coloring-gluing at 2buss.

Or what i did, use the AA emulations, (alexb has some great ones) and then use the satin only for artifacts/nuances etc.

 

Got one of these. Get my recommendations! :
https://www.vintagetools.de/Audio/Mixing-Summing/Vintagetools-Sonic-Summarizer-Pro.html

 

Maybe pick up a Vintech 273 and re-route everything (tracks and/or busses) out of your DA --> line-in to Vintech pres to get some trafos and electronics --> line-out back into your DAW. 2x2 takes longer than 8x2, but you wouldn't be mixing through outboard anyway, you'd just pass everything through some outboard for weight, color, and converter character. (not recommended with presonus, m-audio, etc...). Anything with trafos would stack nicely. Look at Mammoth Cave Audio too. http://mammothcaveaudio.com/passive-aggressive-series/

Or, just use NLS or Airwindows.

 

I mentioned summing mixers to you years ago and if you are willing to take the drive up to Orlando. i have a shit load of stuff in storage that you can "Borrow" for a bit. Hit me up on the "other site and I'll drop you the gear list. I rather it be used than collect dust

 

@Mykal
Mos def. I see youre globe-trotting these days. Enjoy life my man. We've paid our dues in full many times over. Its time to savor the fruits for sure.

 

Last edited: May 15, 2017

There was a blind test quite a while ago where they compared in the box mixing against SSL and Neve console mixes of the same material and also in the box mixing with or without various high end summing mixers including the Dangerous Bus.
Conclusively, as I remember, not one professional mixing engineers could confidently figure out during the blind test which mix was better. All of them had their own preferred subjective choices, but what was very sobering is the fact that most of them could not even tell what mixes they were hearing at any times while they were listening to the mixes! And again when they were comparing the mixes there was no substantial consistency in figuring out which mix sounded the best.
I believe that you need good equipment for the best possible sound, but you skill is the major part.
If I were you I would get the best AD/DA converter I could get anytime before I would even consider any kind of summing boxes.
If you have a good AD/DA that can be clocked externally then get the Apogee Big Ben unless it already has a very good internal clock! You will be surprised how much the Big Ben will improve the sound quality of the AD/DA. Especially around the bass, mid bass, and middle frequencies area you will hear substantial improvement with way less jitter thus more pronounced and focused sounds that will give you more separations hence intelligibility, consequently better sounding mixes.

 

Last edited: May 15, 2017

Googled Big Ben as I've heard about people using it with my interface (MOTU HD 192). Landed on a thread at GS. Wow at the discussion. It can't make a difference vs it makes a huge difference.
I think it would help my situation as I have two interfaces (MOTU 828), and they'd likely perform better if they were synced together by the same clock.

 

It seams that their marketing story (and not just theirs) is bollocks... very informative video:

 

I love the video, your right their particular description is not accurate , however there are many more variables than covered in the youtube video.

 

Glad to see someone else from Orlando.
Also to keep on topic https://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/blogs/news/15851740-how-to-build-a-diy-passive-summing-box
This is amazing, built several for myself & clients. Of course added some of my own touches, but was one of the first pieces I built now I make my own design. Also as people said mammoth cave audio is superb as well. Check out groupdiy sometime, you won't be disappointed

 

I'm picking up an Akai GX-75 cassette player tomorrow. A really nice plugin.

In my experience, processing buses is enough to add the nice analogue "mojo". Summing in a DAW is perfectly alright, the only problem is what you're summing, if you catch my drift. The source of the sound is always the most important. That's why I'm simply "killing" my VSTis with everything I've got to make them sound decent. Tape can make them sound quite good, for example and I'm not selling my kidneys to be able to buy a great quality Revox or Akai tape-deck.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having a nice passive summing mixer, but the most important thing is to make every track a bit "randomised" and that's all there is to it, to make the mix sound analogue and more "3D". You can achieve that with the right plugins. Klanghelm IVGI is one of those, too. Really nice. And SDRR.

 

Last edited: May 16, 2017

@SineWave, I've got an Akai GX-260D I've been wanting to test drive. What sources do you like tape on? I've been running tape emulation on guitar tracks mostly. It really seems to put them "in the room" better than anything else I've tried.
Was thinking about giving it a listen on the drum bus as well.

 

I'm a bit new to this real tape game so I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to use it for, although we've made our first recordings on tape in the 90s. Everything first went to tape. Fostex 24ch reel at the time. Since I've got this nice Drawmer gate that I'm using for drums, I might even use the tape for drums, too. And kill about 10dB of noise with the gate. But what I'm hoping for is to use it for vocals and background noise [errr pads...]. If resampling through quality outboard makes things sound more "3D", I guess tape will make it "3D" indeed. Since generally vocals and background things should be more "3D"... I guess I should process them with the tape recorder.

Thanks for mentioning the drums, digitaldragon. I think I will use it for drums, too. But on two mono channels because drums do have to be in the centre. Interesting idea, eh? Kick on the left and snare on the right. Hats and toms should be stereo, though. Gosh I can't wait to try that!

That's a nice piece of equipment you have there, mate!

 

Last edited: May 16, 2017

I’ve heard about the Apogee Big Ben a lot and seen it in many professional studios, but I still thought it was an overkill and unnecessary for great sound quality. I thought it might give a so small improvement if any that is not important at the end as no one would hear the difference anyways. Then I received a Big Ben for trying it out, at that time with a Digidesign 96 I/O (an okay AD/DA). Honestly I was shocked and surprised to immediately hear a very noticeable difference especially in the bass, mid - bass, and mid frequency area. The sound became more focused, kick drum and bass became focused and tight. All in all it actually improved the 96 I/O a lot! That was the only reason I purchased one many years ago. So IMHO a really good and accurate AD/DA with a great internal or external clock is important! Other crucial factors are the quality of the speakers, microphone and especially the quality of the preamp!

I also tried out a Millennia Origin STT-1 among a few other preamps and channel strips with a few large membrane condenser microphones mostly for vocal recordings. The Millennia Origin is not a cheap unit, but I was really curious to hear if it was only a hype or it really delivered quality. When the vocalist sang the very first line in the vocal boot you guys should have seen her face and also mine. hahahahaha This more than preamp is absolutely stunning in quality! It delivers a super transparent clear sound with that very slight extra (zeeeezzz?) that bring this into the top professional field. In this test the only other preamp that came very close to the Millennia was the Aphex Thermionics Model 1100!

About the microphones, among them there was a Neumann U87 Ai that was the most expensive among the other Neumanns and some other AKG and AT mics. Again there was a noticeable quality increase when I tried out the U87 Ai.

The conclusion here is that most of the time when a pro audio unit is pricey it is for valid quality reasons, but it is not all the time the case though. Among the preamps there was the (at that time newly developed) Focusrite Liquid Channel that was actually more expensive than the Millennia Origin. For my ears it was a useless piece in terms of sound quality and it looks like I was correct in my assessment as today you can buy the Liquid Channel used for about $1000 USD, but you wont be able to find a used Millennia Origin for less than $2000 USD. The Millennia was able to keep its value as it delivers the magic while the Liquide Channel's price fell by a huge margin.

 

Last edited: May 17, 2017

Got a new project going and about to test drive charly tomorrow. I got 7 tracks of vox (3 different mics) that need some of its mojo. After I take care of the sibilants and plosives that is.

 

Last edited: May 16, 2017

I'll likely process the entire bus after bouncing it. I'm interested in transparently removing some of the shrillness of the cymbals. Up until now, I've been eqing it out. Just interested to see how this piece (the real deal) compares to the emulations I've been running.
It is also an interesting idea running the kick and snare through on their own. I'd imagine you will hear more punch from the slight compression of the tape.

 

Yeah, after more thoroughly reading the "other" forum, it looks like those who were saying it doesn't make any difference were speculators, not people who had actually listened to one. Most replies from those who had done a comparison confirm what you're saying here.