I'm currently creating templates and with all my orcheatral Kontakt libraries loaded up it can resukt in an insane ampunt of tracks.

I've been looking at VSL Ensemble Pro and wondering if it has any benefits when using a single machine without a slave computer?

Wohkd be good to get some thoughts on it and advice on its usage from anyone using it or who understands it. I woukd ideally be looking to use it with Studio One.

 

Oops. Just realised I misread what u said. Doh! I guess it's a bit like having (ie) lots of different Kontakt multis saved as a big "uber multi". Which can be handy. It's like u don't have to load up & fix all the fiddly things that Kontakt sometimes resets, each time...

Edit. Doh. These are the advantages of using a slave:

Spoiler

It has a few advantages. Ur basically sharing the load between 2 computers. It allows u 2 use ur Mac (or PC) alongside, without file transfer complimacations etcs. However, I like to use high buffer settings so I can play / edit "live" (ie no freeze) w/ lots of different VST/i, so I have to readjust that a lil bit. Cos the trade off (cost) is latency. I mean I use it over (wired) LAN, and it does struggle a bit @ high buffer sizes. It's supposed 2b better if u wire direct?

But y'know, the best test (for ur environment) is to DIY. It's a lil fiddly to set up, but prolly no moar than if u use Hauptwerk or any of those metering things? Bear in mind that u might have to lower ur ASIO buffer a bit, and it's worthwhile checking the IP of all ur computers beforehand, so u don't try using ur toaster as a slave! It can be really handy, tho, not having 2 have all ur sample libs clogging up ur studio PC, basically means I can use 1 SATA slot for HD, rest SSD. I guess I'm gonna get another fairly quick mini-desktop to see if it's worthwhile doing intensive calculations on a slave; probably is I would guess.

 

Last edited: May 9, 2017

This is what I was thinking. And obviously has the perks of things like making it quicker to change projects because if using same template, I can just switch Studio One songs without it needing to reload all of the Kontakt instances and so on as they are independently sat in VEPro.

 

Yeah, that's kinda right. U can kinda think of it almost like an outboard box DAW. Ish. It can be slightly annoying the way u can't organise these "presets" very well, tho. Or maybe that was just me...

But it is worth thinking about using a slave, even a cheapo mini PC / media server for sample libs / dl. Or just keep ur old desktop when u upgrade? Anyway, I tend 2 use it for those small libs that u don't use very often, cos most of the stuff i use is on SSD & already have lots of K5M files for most things! But anyway, I guess it depends whether latency is important?

Edit: oh yeah, realised that this may (?) be an advanage for single PC / Mac use, too. Cos u can select ur VST dir in VEP, u can use a different version (ie in diff dir) of Kontakt, w/ different settings. This is most useful when ur loading libs from either SSD / HD, and can set low preload buffer Kontakt for libs stored on SSD, and a high preload buffer Kontakt for libs stored on HD.

 

Last edited: May 10, 2017

I don't think you getting any benefits in the same machine. VEP using same CPU threads and memory bandwidth.
I'm using Mac Pro 5,1 PT HDx rig with VEP on Win. Pulling 72 tracks with loaded instruments from VEP (5 Omnispheres + 12 Kontakts + etc) with out any problems and 2ms latency straight to Pro Tools HD 12.7. with Offline bunch. New version is amazing. Opens and load template nicely.

 

If you end up layering those tracks aka sending the same midi notes to many instruments, you may benefit in terms of workflow to separate the kontakt instances in another window and submixing those layers via a single VE Pro return (so basically instead of 12 "drum" tracks in your daw you will have one track summing those 12 "drum" tracks from VE Pro)

However, if you send different midi notes to those many many kontakt instruments, then using VE Pro may be difficult to work with, as you need to separately map automation channels.

Lastly, if you have (or are able) to figure out a template to use in every project, once you set up the instruments and automation lanes, VE Pro can help you.

 

Save the metadata in vsl and they will load each time

 

As you said, big one is loading your samples once and changing projects without reloading them. Another is, if your DAW crash, you don't have to reload samples. It's also very possible that your DAW is much more stable with no VIs and samplers, less code on the run.

But the biggest thing for me is with Cubase save...not sure how S1 project save works, but Cubase with every save writes tons of info from EVERY Kontakt instance (every instrument in those instances) you have active. So if you have a project with 20 Kontakts full loaded with samples you are looking at very long saving times, 15-20sec...even longer (each time you click ctrl+S you wait for 20sec o.O ...crazy, right!?). But VEP, preserved and decoupled resolves that. So I use it both on master and slave.

 

You will see benefit with slave machine of course, but you know that already!
You will not see any benefit because it's on same machine. Your sequencer will be CPU/RAM free but overall system will be full loaded up. So instead of using all cores for your sequencer stuff, lot of cores will be used simult. in background by VEPro. Now, if you remember we all do some Windows tweaking to free up every background task for stable work of our sequencer You can have possible performance issues by this. I tried this sometimes ago, but not found as useful.

shomyca has good points about loading up in case of crash, saving etc... but from my experience I found this as more unstable.

Instead I would suggest you to create template this way:

• Organize everything with folders etc... you know already that
• Then from each category, lets say you have STRINGS, WOODWINDS, BRASSES, etc..., just leave 3-4 tracks, lets say V1 sustain, V1 spic, V2 sustain, VLN ens and rest of tracks from folder you should disable
• Repeat this within each category

This way when you open your template you have on demand basic main sounds you need, VLN Full, V1 sus, FL sus, TRUMPET sus, etc... to start with it. Then as you continue to work and you need V1 tremolo, ok just enable track and it's there.

I mean, people love to have full template on demand with loaded everything, but in practice when you're starting with composing you're always starting with basic articulations, isn't it.

Ahh, one more important thing, do not use single Kontakt instance for 10 patches, for example one Konakt instance for all violins longs, another for shorts etc. Instead, you will be blessed with separate Kontakt instances for each articulation.

I can explain you why...
First, do not worry about RAM consumption, because I tested many times, also I have one template with Kontakt multi-outputs, and another with single instances, and difference is really small, in 300-400 Mb.
Second, in every moment you can freeze track without worrying what else is connected there. You have great opportunity to just duplicate track when you need another articulation or another instrument within each folder.

After all, you need to find your way and what is best workflow for you. For example, I found this way is more efficient for me and my workflow.
Also, I have few templates for different kind of styles, few for trailer stuff in some type of variants, few for classical style with different libraries set, etc.

 

Last edited: May 9, 2017

I use Studio One on a iMac 27" late 2009 (i7, 32GB ram, dual SSD) with VEP (version 4) and I feel this configuration is way faster and truly more CPU efficient than Studio One alone!

 

Interesting, I had opposite, but on Windows and not with S1.
But, it's really individual... for someone will work ok, for someone not.

 

I used to use it on only one computer, when I had just one. I found it usefull with samplitude, I thought it handled Kontakt better, the separated process were handled better by my computer, it didn't choke as quick, and I liked that I didn't have to reload the thing and all its patches everytime I reopened my daw to work a project. Kontakt was just always opened in the background running in VEP5. But I agree with @nikon it probably depends on your setup, daw and network (if you use two computers). You should try to see what you gain or lose with this configuration.
Now I use v6 (which is great btw, great stepup from v5 which I used before, the VR one) on my second computer and I couldn't go without it. Weither it's for the u-he synths (Diva, Bazille, Repro), Kontakt or Acquas and Nebulas or Altiverb, and even if I have a great main setup, it's always running and I've completely integrated it to my workflow. Plus there are others things you can put on a secondary setup and use through the network. Like Analizers, the one from Flux, Pure Analizer for example.

 

Even in 2017 most of the DAWs can't properly handle and balance over multiple cores - the well-known issue if we load a single bus with heavy plugins, they will all run on a single core and spit "system overload" error - hence the always better performance of i7 vs dual Xeons.

By using 2 "daws" (VE Pro + Main DAW) the load is handled better because the OS contributes to allocating resources to these two apps.

 

Can VSL Ensemble handle bit bridging as well?
I'm interested in trying it out because Studio One really doesn't handle load balancing across multiple cores very well. So things like Diva, some Kontakt libs, Slate FG-X, and other plugs, tax CPU core 0 really fast in Studio One. As quick as some might snicker at me for saying this, one of the most efficient DAWs around is Mixcraft 8. Mixcraft is actually maturing nicely and developing into a reasonably capable piece of kit.

JBridge works ok-ish for making NI B4II available in x64 Studio One, but I would rather an even more "transparent" solution.

 

Yes. You will have in VE Pro 2 separate servers: one for 32-bit plugs, and one for 64-bit plugs. You can run old software in 32-bit server and obviously, access both servers from your daw project. VE Pro is quite elegant for such stuff.

 

Thanx for confirming this for me. Every once in a while, I run into a situation where I *really want/need to use an older VI or effect plug-in that isn't available in 64 bit.
Oy! It's kinda pricey so I'll have to save up.

 

It worked great when used on the same machine (without slave) during the 32bit era but after 64bit DAW's expanded RAM capabilities I don't think there is much use for using on the same machine unless you want to setup templates for quick load, ie a buddy uses it to load orchestral presets. If you're using a 32bit DAW then I would totally recommend trying it out on the same comp.

 

Ok, I'm having some issues and need some extra pointers with this. I have the MIDI tracks set up in Studio One as instrument tracks and they are receiving audio back from the VE Pro instance.

However, what I am having difficulty is with anything beyond MIDI [A]1. I have set up 16 tracks in Studio One, all mapped to same VE Pro instance and running in ascending MIDI order from [A]1 to [A]16. Then I load Kontakt into the VE Pro instance and have it set up with the 16 stereo outputs as the default Kontakt layout.

My [A]1 track in Studio One links perfectly to the first Kontakt instrument and audio is fed back to it from VE Pro perfectly. However, what I can't do is anything beyond that. My [A]2 to [A]16 tracks in Studio One just will not communicate with the Kontakt [A]2 to [A]16 instruments within the multi-timbral Kontakt instance that is within VE Pro.

Anyone got any ideas? I'm sure it's something fairly easy I need to tweak, but I can't for the life of me find that magic switch I need to flip to make it work!!!

Studio One instrument tracks:


Here is the VE Pro instance:

 

If you want to run a 32 bit plug in 64 try jbridge. Im assuming youre on a Win machine. There is also a mac alternative too, but unsure of the name.

 

jBridgeM

No, seriously: https://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridgem/