Hi
A mastering engineer offered me to master a song and after he send me the finished master, I saw that the ProQ analyzer shows that there are some frequencies even at 22kHz.

https://zapodaj.net/f0111564dc313.jpg.html

Would a professional mastering engineer cut freqs above 20kHz with a brickwall LP filter (like in Ozone EQ) ?
If he leaves the freqs above 20kHz, does it mean he is not a professional mastering engineer?


Btw. Have you come across some songs released e.g. on good labels that have freqs at 22kHz?


cheers!

 

Also, the mastering guy sent me stems of the mastered song. Each stem lasts 4 minutes, and after the instrument (say piano) stops playing , the analyzer shows there's 2 minutes of such quiet noise:
https://zapodaj.net/79a4fed36999a.jpg.html

Would a professional mastering guy let the final stems to have such noises?

 

The PROS cut everything below 20kHZ!!!
The PROS flog everything above 20Hz.

 

Pros won't cut anything, whether below 20Hz or above 20kHz. Though inaudible to human hearing, there are harmonics that resonate and have knock on effects on frequencies within human hearing. Removing them will alter what is heard. In addition, silence is nothing to note and might just be their way of working.

 

The first cut is the deepest.

 

Don't be afraid of "quiet noise". Be afraid of nowadays "pros", who are cutting, limiting, compressing everywhere and everything for sake of even louder and sterile mixes. It may sound good from technical side, but may fall as "engaging storyteller" which music should be.

 

pros won't cut anything, any editing activities can coloring overall content. they use some magic hardware and workflow to convert the audio, which the hardware cannot hear above 20khz

 

Who cares for the cut nowadays - 320k/bits mp3

 

that is a misconception from the Mp3 era. if one would examine a mp3, one would find that the higher frequencies are cut by the encoder.

I would choose to leave the higher frequencies "in",

I have "heard" of cutting the higher frequencies before encoding,
which actually makes no sense to me at all. Since there is no way of disabling the filtering when encoding so filters will double up crippling the signal even more.

wow yeah actually, the last cd I heard six months ago is dr.dre his last album, and without knowing for sure that one must have those frequencies.

that's actually hard to say. what strikes me as strange is that you left the noise in in the first place

 

The noise was created by his processing (I sent him stems for mastering, and the stems were completely free from such noises).

When a mastering engineer sends to a client stems of a finished song, is it possible that the stems can have such 'quiet noise' ?

 

i think its dependent on which noise the engineer add to the sound cause maybe the mastering engineer adding some characteristics to the sound with some vintage stuff,
and human listen from 20hz up to 20khz so there is no problem if he cut it or left it, i think its his personal decision, the most important to cut below 20hz.

 

Though I might be totally imagining this, though encoders cut that is no reason to cut before hand. For example, harmonics from higher frequencies will resonate through the entire frequency range and affect audible frequencies. If you cut before encoding, I.e. in the mastering, you will lose these harmonics. However, if you leave them in and export the master to a full range flac or wav, then convert that file to an mp3, I find that it then preserves the harmonics and knock effects throughout the mix even though the mp3 encoding cuts the higher frequencies in simplistic terms. As I said, I might be totally imagining this, but it's what I've found in the past.

In addition, the actual 'energy' of a lot of instruments, acoustic instruments in particular due to the lack of technological restrictions, is above 20kHz or below 20Hz. Though they may not be audible, they can still carry energies that can be sensed or felt.

 

Last edited: May 3, 2017

People still use mp3s in 2017 ?

 

It looks like typical analogue hardware noise and yes it is quiet. It looks much bigger in the analyser than it really is. I wouldn't worry about it and I don't. It gives a recording that nice analogue "mojo".

Regarding cutting everything above 20kHz, yes they can do that if I think the highs are too harsh. Also MP3s cut the frequencies above 18.5kHz anyway. Only bats can hear those anyway. It's also a little trick to get a less harsh sounding master, to cut really high frequencies before limiting it with a digital limiter.

 

Last edited: May 3, 2017

I would say those high frequencies do of course matter, especially in compression and limiting processes. That you can't hear them doesn't mean there is no dynamic intercourse. Its the same reason why sound engineers cut very low frequencies. But the whole discussion is kind of worthless, because at the end the only thing that matters is what it sounds like. (By the way, i guess those high frequencies occure mostly after massive exciter use.)

Triple, you shouldn't observe obstinately to find alleged failures in your master. Instead take it around, listening over it on every possible sound system to check if the desired mood stays consistent. There are top hits out there, you wouldn't believe how messed up and noizy those mixes are. But no one cares because people like music mostly for other reasons. There is no wrong or right. Only emotion, mood and consistence.

 

Not everything is available in other formats, rare stuff, soundtracks, scores. What can you do.

 

Cheers Triple,
let`s change the perspective of the question a bit.

If I`m not mistaken you disconfide the master engineer of choice,
but you pack this into a generalized question.

A generalized question is a noplace per se because there are no hard rules.

It`s an individual progress of experience
resulting into the development of a vision and a philosophy.

Some pros definitively cut even at 16k at a fixed slope, energize sections below,
others go another route.

As individual as it is:
I saw a pro listening to a track for some seconds,
made a 0.5db cut at around 315hz and said: "done".
Thunderstrucked I listened a few times again and the track was done indeed.

Crucial for you in this case:
what makes a pro and qualifies a pro
is the capability to make his choices plausible to you.
Maybe this specific track triggered a decision to give it some extra sizzle.

I would openly communicate your concerns due to this specific track
and see if you resonate to the replies.

And even if the replies resonate,
your ears may still tell you something is not "right" with the track
which tells you the master engineer of choice is not the right one (for you).

 

I am aware of the possibility that there are harmonics over 20khz and below 20hz that might be important for a mix theoreticaly. But to be honest in over 20 years semi professional mixing and mastering i never worked on a track where a >20khz harmonic was "the shit", "that thing that made the song awesome" cause it gave me that special feeling and energy! Never expirienced that. And if you cut the harmoincs they are gone. Dosent matter if a codec does that or the master engineer. I say you can cut that or leave it ... who cares ... As soon as you use a codec everything is gone above 20khz

 

Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017

Many mastering limiters use a low-pass filter by default. E.g. Elephant's starts even below 20 kHz.
First, you shouldn't mix or master something you cannot hear (or "monitor"). It can be good, bad, or something else.
Second, if you don't cut it, the (maybe) cheap filters in the CD players, smartphones, lossy codecs etc. will do it for you and don't want it, because you want to do it properly by yourself with better tools and better decisions. Even if today that's not as important as it was some years ago and you are not sure about a LPF, just leave it to the limiter (or the mastering engineer accordingly).

 

A question : does somebody know here what kind of filter is used by pros to cut below 20 Hz an entire mix ???
Is it a 12 db/Octave ? 24 db/oct ? 18 ? 48? ...?

In consequence of that,according the filter used,do you adjust your Hi Pass filter at 20 Hz or less ?

That could be usefull to knoww it for my skillz and my tracks.

Thanks a lot !