"
here is no truth at all
humans are limited to senses how any body can speaks about supernatural
there is no evidence that even prove the outside world is truth so how we can debate about god and soul.
at the most we can just be sure about ourselves exist (I think so I am exist) not more!"



there is no evidence that the outside world is true?

that is the most fictional sentence i have ever heard or in other words a arrangement of words that has the most demonstrable evidence against it i have ever seen congratulations!

lets test this out a bit, first are fictional characters the same as actual people that exists? dos the laws give equal rights to fictional characters from tv shows and movies as it does to human beings that exists in reality? people care if their loved ones get hurt and die do they respond the same to fictional characters? do you love a cartoon character on a cereal box cover in the same way as your girlfriend or wife?

human accomplishment.

Science produces the fruit of objective reality whether it is a computer motherboard that has muti trillions of parts put together more complex than any city and manufactured identically over the world and behaves the same, or millions of the same smart phone , electromagnetism is not fiction ,electricity works a specific way.

we make a complex blueprint and all over the world any culture can build it and it works the same. there is a difference between fiction and reality my friend even if you want to pretend that that is not true, the only person that can pretend fiction is identical to reality, is the person who cannot differentiate between the two within their ow thought process each moment ( the topic of the thread read it from the beginning)

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2017

http://www.trustedreviews.com/best-motherboard_round-up

these motherboards are the fruit of objective reality. they manufacture as many of the same identical motherboards and they all act the same , this is possible because a difference exists between fiction and reality. In a world where fiction was all there was reality itself would be up to constant change from human thought and even human themselves that existed would be no different from fictional characters, there would be no illness because there wouldn't be "the way bodies actually work" there would be no requirement for people to eat and drink and reproduce to survive, there would be no gravity to laws pf physics

the dream state would be the state you always found yourself in t hat is to say , anything and everything could be changed by human thought at all times , time would not even exists the way we know it because you could make a second last 57 days if you wanted in a fictional world.
zombies would be real santa claus would be stuck in your chimney and puff the magic dragon would be your local drug dealer. you would be able to invent other people in one moments time and you would find yourself in a new location every few moments. there would be no soild objects there would be no morality because here wouldn't even be living things that could die.




Do you value your loved ones ans family and best friends the way you value a fictional character in a movie or tv show? is the death of them identical value to you? do they have the same rights?

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2017

Again you just showed your massive lack of reading comprehension. And even better, you denounce "where those topics always go" by initiating this trend all alone. Very smart. I think the childish reaction is on your side. You answered no question. (Isn't it embarrassing?) So i guess you are the one who is very pissed of by writing lines like: "You won't impress anyone." Wow! I'am shaking.

"Your baseless belief in whatever you believe in, aren't very interesting to me, I didn't try to convert you to anything, and regarding your so called nihilism all I did is to remind you that it's a path that is as much an irrational choice as any others."

Sorry, but this is just ridiculous. Huh? Did i force you to find it interesting? Did i in any way use my "belief" to persuade anyone? And where did i mention you would want to convert me? PLEASE SHOW ME! I'am just speechless. Reading this is like reading the fantasy of a mentally disturbed person. Absolutely no sense! And I never ever proclaimed that my "so called nihilism" is the truth or a rational solution for anything. What i said is, its a conlusion if you answered all the questions in a scientific way. (For the dense people: "You" means not YOU personaly, its just a placeholder for a person like me.)

Also my "superiority feeling" exists only in your head. I mentioned many times that i had no choice. If you read the whole thread, you will find a post where i describe how i nearly died by suffocation. This was the very beginning of my nihilistic thinking. And every following experience and knowledge strengthened it. Other people find in similar incidents to god. But i would never claim they are wrong or mine is the truth. And if you do so you are just lying or to stupid to understand anything.

By the way. You are the only one who is arrogant in here. And childish enough to associate your very own dislikes and negative assumptions with other people. And don't call me Dude or boy. I'am female!

Please start to discuss about the given matter. Thanks!

 

Allright dude, no sweat, I'm glad you understand.
I really thought you were getting all pissed off and childish, apparently I was wrong, you're serenity incarnated.
I highly respect your belief dude, hang to them and it will all be all right.
Thanks !

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2017

Can any theist here you tell me why you believe in God:
1. you were brought up to believe in God?
2. you hope there is a God?
3. you think there are some convincing non-fictional evidence there is a God?
4. Anything else?

I am not out to be confrontational here. I really want to know what makes you believe in God.

 

There is undoubtedly some truth in what you speak about, however possibly a good deal of confusion and abstract reasoning also
People are not required to reproduce to survive? A mortal being cannot survive by the very definition of the word?
Again, people are not required to eat or drink.
It is a choice we make, if fortunate enough to be forwarded the option and there is a consequence associated with refusing to do so or not possessing the opportunity to do as much.
Gravity, The Laws of Physics, well yes but there are also many singularities that cannot be explained by any manner of rational explanation.

GOD -------------------> ?



Important maybe to remember is that most religions are not based on proof but rather faith which is quite different?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017

the "WHY...?" questions are so boring. "HOW...?" questions is where it's at! :P

 

"There is undoubtedly some truth in what you speak about, however possibly a good deal of confusion and abstract reasoning also
People are not required to reproduce to survive? A mortal being cannot survive by the very definition of the word?
Again, people are not required to eat or drink.
It is a choice we make, if fortunate enough to be forwarded the option and there is a consequence associated with refusing to do so or not possessing the opportunity to do as much.
Gravity, The Laws of Physics, well yes but there are also many singularities that cannot be explained by any manner of rational explanation.

GOD -------------------> ?



Important maybe to remember is that most religions are not based on proof but rather faith which is quite different?

"




"however possibly a good deal of confusion and abstract reasoning also "

lets find out together below






"People are not required to reproduce to survive?"


if your parents did not reproduce you would not be born






"people are not required to eat or drink."


i never heard of such thing every human being requires food and drink or else they will wither away and die.






"It is a choice we make,"


no, your wrong it is not a choice , the way the body actually works is requirement intake of calories to survive as well as nutrients vitamins and number of other requires the body has to have to survive i suggest you google of the human being works.




"
Gravity, The Laws of Physics, well yes but there are also many singularities that cannot be explained by any manner of rational explanation.
"

i don't know what this means, are you saying that there are things for which you do not have an answer?
I can see that. you are not alone, thankfully we can learn things by getting demonstrable evidence from reality to understand the way hings actually work.




"

Important maybe to remember is that most religions are not based on proof but rather faith which is quite different?"


or it is important for a human being inside their experience, who finds themselves in any moment, to be able to evaluate any thought idea concept or proposition they have to distinguish between fiction and not fiction, since words are not actually things but only represent something when they match reality/

 

break time

 

Your saying is not a small point to me but that 3rd option's end is the same. If our universe is created by another universe, then we'll ask who/what created the other universe? We were asking it for the planet earth, the solar system and the galaxy. Now universe, but our basic question is the same. It's like train vagons and we need a locomotive for them.

There are also some quantum vacuum states which claims "something may come from nothing". But quantum vacuum is not nothing. Nothing comes from nothing and if there's any theory to break this, I'll be really interested though it's impossible according to our physic rules.

https://audiosex.pro/threads/athesim-vs-theism.29933/page-6#post-259575

Normally I won't discuss such things but I believe your sincerity. In addition, my belief is purely based on science and philosophy.

As I see, you're asking wrong questions. For example, what is God made of? Maybe consciousness, maybe black matter, maybe iron. We can't know. What a creature can know about the creator? What the creator tells us. We can say it's very powerfull by exploring the space. We can give him many adjectives. And there's some books, people claims they are written by God. At least one of them have to be original, because God is powerfull and easily can save the book against humanity. So I read some and one of them has proofs about being written by God. That's my summary. If you really wonder, I'll tell you about the proofs. Yes I have proofs but I won't tell you stories or miracles. Or you can seek by yourself. It's eventually everyone's own journey. In addition, religious people and the religion's itself are usually different. I may have all the kontakt libraries and make very bad songs. Should you think that I'm bad, or kontakt's itself?

 

That is a loaded statement and you know it. I am assuming you have a basic understanding in logic and that is a language barrier at play but you are either intellectually disrespecting Mr. Kloud on accident or on purpose.

i.e.

I LOVE YOU
MY LEG HURTS

 

I am pretty certain quantum field theory is bit outside the scope of any argument on a music forum. As is quantum translocation, singular zero point flux, and a great many other things that perhaps a few people on this entire planet can wrap their minds around only to get confused enough to admit they do not know -- but they are working on it.

There will always be the unknown, but just as malignant humors and demons gave way to the germ infectious model progress will eventually come (or it will not - doesn't really matter in the end.) It is extremely attractive to find the limits of knowledge and propose (theorize) an explanation filling in the blanks as we see fit. However, one of the biggest advances of we have made as sentient species that passes along what it has learned to its progeny is the ability to say "I don't know, someone should work on that and then have others check it out and see if it makes any sense."

 

there is no such thing as nothing nor has that even been possible becasue if there was a nothing then the force known as a vacuum would exist in that nothingness and that is something as we know from science.

 

http://www.silverlegion.org/Download-Transcripts.html

 

This conclusion is wrong. In physics the vacuum is not "something", but the absence of matter in a space.

 

"
Your saying is not a small point to me but that 3rd option's end is the same. If our universe is created by another universe, then we'll ask who/what created the other universe? We were asking it for the planet earth, the solar system and the galaxy. Now universe, but our basic question is the same. It's like train vagons and we need a locomotive for them.

There are also some quantum vacuum states which claims "something may come from nothing". But quantum vacuum is not nothing. Nothing comes from nothing and if there's any theory to break this, I'll be really interested though it's impossible according to our physic rules."





"Your saying is not a small point to me but that 3rd option's end is the same. If our universe is created by another universe, then we'll ask who/what created the other universe?"


I don't know what you are asking, we cannot investigate before that point. we don't know what type of different natural lwas govern that we just dont know anything about it.






"We were asking it for the planet earth, the solar system and the galaxy. Now universe, but our basic question is the same."


and the answer is the same as it was for earth, then solar system , then galaxy , then universe
all laws of nature
we could have been born to a different reality for which when we investigated the earth we found supernatural or we investigated the galaxy we found supernatural or we investigated universe we found supernatural, but we were born into a reality for which we traced the evidence all the way back as far as we can , there is no evidence anywhere in reality in any discipline of the supernatural.





"It's like train vagons and we need a locomotive for them."

and we have them all the way back to where we cannot investigate further.







"There are also some quantum vacuum states which claims "something may come from nothing". But quantum vacuum is not nothing."


yes i agree it not helpful calling vacuum states " nothing"
we have no demonstrable evidence that "nothing" is anything other than a word we have used , its not anything real




"Nothing comes from nothing"

nothing is a word only a description of when you have no things so a word comes from a mouth or a piece of paper that it got written on.





"if there's any theory to break this, I'll be really interested though it's impossible according to our physic rules.""


well whatever we find out that is demonstrable my mind will change to adapt to reality.

 

"
there is no such thing as nothing nor has that even been possible becasue if there was a nothing then the force known as a vacuum would exist in that nothingness and that is something as we know from science.

"


"nothing" is a word we created to symbolically represent a lack of things

 

"
Normally I won't discuss such things but I believe your sincerity. In addition, my belief is purely based on science and philosophy.

As I see, you're asking wrong questions. For example, what is God made of? Maybe consciousness, maybe black matter, maybe iron. We can't know. What a creature can know about the creator? What the creator tells us. We can say it's very powerfull by exploring the space. We can give him many adjectives. And there's some books, people claims they are written by God. At least one of them have to be original, because God is powerfull and easily can save the book against humanity. So I read some and one of them has proofs about being written by God. That's my summary. If you really wonder, I'll tell you about the proofs. Yes I have proofs but I won't tell you stories or miracles. Or you can seek by yourself. It's eventually everyone's own journey. In addition, religious people and the religion's itself are usually different. I may have all the kontakt libraries and make very bad songs. Should you think that I'm bad, or kontakt's itself?
"


"my belief is purely based on science and philosophy."

wow that is amazing that means you have been able to differentiate the belief from fiction, please go on. tell us more.







"For example, what is God made of? Maybe consciousness, maybe black matter, maybe iron. We can't know."


so you believe in something , for which you dont know anything about? how do you differentiate the belief from fiction?





"We can say it's very powerfull by exploring the space."


powerful is a word a symbolic description, so if you say its powerful what exactly do you mean by that if the answer is you dont know what it is? if it actually is powerful, describe what it is for it to be powerful and the process it follows to be powerful.






"We can give him many adjectives."

i can give superman my adjectives also how is there a difference?





"And there's some books, people claims they are written by God."

people claim many things using words arranged in different order, but there is only one circumstance for which peoples claims are not fiction, and that is when the content of their claim has demonstrable evidence. what is your demonstrable evidence to show that god couldn't be fiction like superman?




"God is powerfull and easily can save the book against humanity."


i dont know what you mean , god can do anything as people claim, yet we have demonstrable evidence of god being or doing zero things.
exactly the same as superman spider-man santa claus and the walking dead characters




"So I read some and one of them has proofs about being written by God. That's my summary."


huh?



"If you really wonder, I'll tell you about the proofs."

huh?




"Yes I have proofs but I won't tell you stories or miracles."

all you have done this entire comment is tell stories and claimed a miracle





"It's eventually everyone's own journey"

what is that turning " i dont know" into well, i would like to belive X so ill go for it?

 

"That is a loaded statement and you know it. I am assuming you have a basic understanding in logic and that is a language barrier at play but you are either intellectually disrespecting Mr. Kloud on accident or on purpose."



you are very confused ,

a fact is not a loaded statement .

how is stating a fact disrespecting?

the irony is this your comment is disrespecting that is for no reason of logic or reason, you are making the choice to disrespect me

 

"I am pretty certain quantum field theory is bit outside the scope of any argument on a music forum. As is quantum translocation, singular zero point flux, and a great many other things that perhaps a few people on this entire planet can wrap their minds around only to get confused enough to admit they do not know -- but they are working on it.

There will always be the unknown, but just as malignant humors and demons gave way to the germ infectious model progress will eventually come (or it will not - doesn't really matter in the end.) It is extremely attractive to find the limits of knowledge and propose (theorize) an explanation filling in the blanks as we see fit. However, one of the biggest advances of we have made as sentient species that passes along what it has learned to its progeny is the ability to say "I don't know, someone should work on that and then have others check it out and see if it makes any sense.""





"but just as malignant humors and demons gave way to the germ infectious model progress will eventually come (or it will not - doesn't really matter in the end.)"


how can progress come as you say ,if human beings need not differentiate between fiction and not fiction ( this is a reference to this below









"...or it is important for a human being inside their experience, who finds themselves in any moment, to be able to evaluate any thought idea concept or proposition they have to distinguish between fiction and not fiction, since words are not actually things but only represent something when they match reality/"



""That is a loaded statement and you know it. I am assuming you have a basic understanding in logic and that is a language barrier at play but you are either intellectually disrespecting Mr. Kloud on accident or on purpose.""


Как би могло да бъде езикова бариера след появата на google transalte?


how is me stating a fact you obviously agree with disrespecting or dong anything your accusing me of there?















或者，在他們的經驗裡面，一個人在任何時刻發現自己都是重要的，能夠評估任何想法概念或命題，他們必須區分小說而不是小說，因為言語實際上不是東西，而只是代表當他們匹配現實/“
Huòzhě, zài tāmen de jīngyàn lǐmiàn, yīgèrén zài rènhé shíkè fāxiàn zìjǐ dōu shì zhòngyào de, nénggòu pínggū rènhé xiǎngfǎ gàiniàn huò mìngtí, tāmen bìxū qūfēn xiǎoshuō ér bùshì xiǎoshuō, yīnwèi yányǔ shíjì shang bùshì dōngxi, ér zhǐshì dàibiǎo dāng tāmen pǐpèi xiànshí/“

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2017