Me too. That's why I said a few pages earlier that I'm neither theist nor atheist. But people here don't seem to understand Buddhism, since they decided to count it as a traditional religion, despite the fact that neither Siddartha is a religious person, nor Bodhi any religious activity.

 

You should learn to understand what you read. What i have written fills absolutely no gap. I never tried to prove. I only disproved his assumptions. Please show me one sentence to prove YOUR speculation.

Several times i mentioned that he filled the gaps with wishful thinking. It doesn't mean it should be replaced with my wishful thinking. Because it can't be filled with anything. Okay? I also did not write about my privat philosophy. I only gave examples to disprove his line of thaught. If i say that i have nihilistic tendencies it doesn't mean its the one and only religion like he did by explaining the universe with a creator. But if i say i'am a nihilistic person who doesn't see any special meaning in life, and if i'am still able to live a more honest life than a random believer, it disproves, that the universe has been made from a creator with a meaning behind. If you can't follow that, you shouldn't answer in such a stupid way. In my example i showed, even an earth full of nihilistic people would work without flaw. (Relating to his theory of morality.) Okay? Got it?

If you have a problem with nihilism. Please choose your favorite search engine and do something for your general education. Its wether a pessimistic philosophy nor a religion. Its a conclusion you get, if you answered enough questions in a scientific way. What else are humans as animals with a little bit more intelligence? Please tell us! I'am pretty excited to read your answer. Again, you should use an hour and read about evolution. I mean as sience not as sketchy interpretation. And if you find some of your ancestors please describe for yourself in what way they differ from you. (Little hint. It has something to do with intelligence!) You also can do it in reverse by comparing yourself with an chimpanse.

By the way. What you feel is allways what you know. But again you failed in your assumption that my intention was to say that my nihilism is a prove for anything. I mean, are you stupid or drunk or what else? I mentioned that i feel my nihilism to avoid smart guys like you from judging me for beeing such an asshole choosing this as a philosophy. Funny thing is. You exactly did that. BUT YOU CAN'T CHOOSE! Okay? Please never ever again say something like i would want to prove anything by my feelings. I'll read it as offense.

Of course does my personal philosophy of life prove nothing. I would never do that. I also have absolutly no problem with knowledge gaps. And if you fill them for yourself with fairy tales and unicorns, still everything is fine for me. But please don't try to convince me or anyone else by pretenting its the one and only truth.

And last but not least: You showed a nice amount of bitchiness by writing that my nihilism is perhaps the only thing i obstained from childhood. Thats just pathetic. And disrespectful. You have no idea who i am. And more important, you have no idea how my childhood was. And if you hate people just for being nihilistic you don't differ from a rassist. I have kids and i love them like any other mother. To look at them as a nihilist doesn't mean they are worthless. But it means you realize that this life is the most valuable thing they own - especialy because in my eyes its meaningless. If you can't follow. You don't feel like an nihilist. But that would be okay. Unlike you i respect other views without bitchiness. Thanks.

 

seems to be a lot of confusion over Theism vs Atheism, and that there should be more options or that there is, but here is why that is false.

Theism vs Atheism deals with one proposition, it is fine if you want to have a conversation about something else, but right now we are breaking it down to one thing Theism

the·ism
ˈTHēˌizəm/
noun
noun: theism

1. belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

I also including anything with souls and afterlife into theism for this particular discussion.

you are either X or not X , one proposition being evaluated .


Then people keep asking what is the pint? its been talked about zillion times bal blah blah ,

well guess what? the point i have tried to made several times the entire point of discussion

is not considered at all by the ones saying " it been talked baout this many times.) instead of saying that why dont you see what is being presented to try and help you.


that a human being inner experiences BY ITSELF, cannot create a thought idea proposition sentence statement idea or concept that could be considered NOT fiction. ( if the content of that proposition or thought is talking about reality or " the way things actually work outside their experience)

the day this topic never needs to be brought up again is when every human being on the planet can differentiate between fiction and not fiction in each moment they exists inside their thought process which is virtual not real.

I have a challenge for anyone whining and crying about how old this topic been discussed or that there i s no point to it or that no one will change their mind.
demonstrate this is wrong or does not apply to any moment a person could ever find themselves in.

"that a human being inner experiences BY ITSELF, cannot create a thought idea proposition sentence statement idea or concept that could be considered NOT fiction. ( if the content of that proposition or thought is talking about reality or " the way things actually work outside their experience)"

 

"
@MMJ2017
Dude, first of all why is so hard to grasp that guitar playing is one thing but super fast guitar playing needs training and practice which i didn't have at the time as i was originally a drummer and had only been playing guitar for 2-3 years ? Who is ignorant ? Can you read ? Have you read any of my other posts? 51 means been there done that, like more times than you can shake your stick at. Your points about invisible men in the clouds etc, i'm sorry but its all crap. Nobody believes in what you say lol unless they 're crazy and i certainly never mentioned anything like that. You keep interpreting words with your own twist trying to humiliate people for their beliefs and you even lack the charisma of doing it right man. Say whatever you like, it's a free world, you may be 37 but i sincerely doubt you have any depth whatsoever. Be well

"



"Dude, first of all why is so hard to grasp that guitar playing is one thing but super fast guitar playing needs training and practice which i didn't have at the time as i was originally a drummer and had only been playing guitar for 2-3 years ?"

Ill explain again, i guessed you missed this part before thats okay, here is me spending 1 second of my effort and energy to coem up with a plauable explanation which would be a very high probability based on the way human body works, the way the mechanics of the guitar work, and the way music itself works, here is the explanation. the pentatonic scale inner string are a symmetrical shape for the hand that can be player of half of the chords in the key , you can move that shape all over and it fits, the shape is same for both fingers, the shape is played by the strongest fretting hand fingers. 99 percent of guitars play this way and play fast with no special training. everyone who play guitar into their 3rd year discovers this even if on accident. there are no violation to the laws of nature in playing the guitar.
you are saying that you "don't know" how you played they way , yet you purpose a entire alternate reality called supernatural to describe that you played a solo. I say that I " don't know" and i purpose what every guitar does at that exact point in their development based n the way the fingers work the guitar works and music itself works. which is more likely you explanation or mine?


"Who is ignorant ?"
well, you told me you where, then you proceeded to demonstrate it .



"Can you read ?"
yes




"Have you read any of my other posts?"
have you read mine?

can you list out exactly how and why any other posts pertain to this one?



"51 means been there done that,"

no it most certainly does not, it means you have been alive for 51 rotations around the sun.






"Your points about invisible men in the clouds etc, i'm sorry but its all crap."

that is what you are saying. you list an event that took place for you, for which you do not know the answer, then instead of that being the end of it that you dont know, you create an entire fantasy world of supernatural and souls and gods and magic and unicorns to describe the literal events of mechanically moving your fingers on vibrating strings attached to a piece of wood for which a magnetic field gets converted into electricity then out a speaker and vibrates the air which your ears can detect.





"Nobody believes in what you say lol unless they 're crazy and i certainly never mentioned anything like that."

yes they do and yes you did.






"You keep interpreting words with your own twist trying to humiliate people"

i dont know what information is contained within this comment.








"Say whatever you like, it's a free world, you may be 37 but i sincerely doubt you have any depth whatsoever. Be well"


so one second before this comment you calim that I am the one twisting words and trying to humiliate people then , one moment later inside of your thought process thsi is what you chose to say next.


""Say whatever you like, it's a free world, you may be 37 but i sincerely doubt you have any depth whatsoever. Be well""

 

whoever modded the Poll, we are evaluating one proposition, you cannot seem to fathom that , it is impossible to neither worship a god (including souls and afterlives) or not (not worship a god.

you cannot say that you do not worship a god, but that yo do not also have no god for that you worship


there is X or not X there is T or not T

it is the evaluation if one single proposition so as to not cloud things up.

 

Buddhism believes in supernatural and afterlife that counts as theism

just like the new age afterlife beliefs that have souls and afterlives that is theism

those only slightly alter theism they are not different from it.

there is nothing different about believing in souls and afterlives but no god vs someone who believes in all of them , they both have equal supernatural claims and are created in the thought process with no evaluation of fiction vs not fiction.

that is fine whoever changed the poll , you are only helping others see how ridiculous it is to say in a proposition X or not X you are neither, please explain to me the law of non contradiction regarding that one? pssssssssshahaha

 

Last edited: Apr 19, 2017

here is a poll

are you alive or not alive?


"oh, dood im niether "

 

A few posts up you define Theism as :

ˈTHēˌizəm/
noun
noun: theism

1. belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

Buddhists, as well as many nondual and monist traditions dismiss the notions of god as creator of the universe and/or a transcendent creator with his creatures. Your definition does not mention anything about soul or afterlife either. So why use the term if you mean something else, and then mock ppl for getting confused?

"Do you believe in god/gods, afterlife and/or souls? yes/no" - there ya go.

Nope, (I believe) there is only what you call "fiction". As you allude to in earlier posts we only have a subjective experience of phenomena so we can't say anything about the thing-in-itself /objective reality. You mention that for any idea etc. to be true we need demonstrateable evidence and data from reality itself however how do you access this data? You can't access the data only your perception of it, which is subjective and thus Everything appears to be "Fiction".

 

Last edited: Apr 19, 2017

If believe in God make you a better person be a theism
if not, be an atheism
If it don't help you to be moral man so forget religions
but If you Totally want to leave all Spirituality sources because you're or everyone as an atheism it's the biggest Mistake(my opinion)
some suggestions = Masnvi/ rumi , Spinoza's Ethics , The Fruits of the Earth André Gide. don't doubt it worth you read them believe me

 

Articstorm ,the poll was 1 proposition theism (gods, souls, or afterlives, supernatural of any sort)

vs atheism , no gods no souls no super natural no afterlives

Buddhism is souls supernatural and afterlives. which makes it theism

it was an honest mistake as sometimes the topic does not get presented that way and instead more than one issue is discussed at once clouding and confusing the topic ,
please correct your mistake thank you for your time.

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2017

"
If believe in God make you a better person be a theism
if not, be an atheism
If it don't help you to be moral man so forget religions
but If you Totally want to leave all Spirituality sources because you're or everyone as an atheism it's the biggest Mistake(my opinion)
some suggestions = Masnvi/ rumi , Spinoza's Ethics , The Fruits of the Earth André Gide. don't doubt it worth you read them believe me

"


it is about what is true about reality

 

"
Nope, (I believe) there is only what you call "fiction". As you allude to in earlier posts we only have a subjective experience of phenomena so we can't say anything about the thing-in-itself /objective reality. You mention that for any idea etc. to be true we need demonstrateable evidence and data from reality itself however how do you access this data? You can't access the data only your perception of it, which is subjective and thus Everything appears to be "Fiction".
"






very interesting lets test you to see if your proposition is fiction or not,


do you care for fictional characters on tv or movies the same as your loved ones and family?




"how do you access this data? You can't access the data only your perception of it, which is subjective and thus Everything appears to be "Fiction"."


i dont understand what you are asking, you are either using a computer or phone to comment on this thread right now how was that designed then built? if it was true we lived in the type of reality for which it was not possible to say something about reality it would be 100 percentage impossible to ever design or build computers and cell phones or any electronics in fact we would have to be living like cavemen still our ancestors wouldn't even have been able to make ancient arrow head from breaking stone to a sharp point to cut meat. this response points to demonstrable evidence that your proposition is fiction.



"
You can't access the data only your perception of it, which is subjective and thus Everything appears to be "Fiction".
""

this sentence is fiction the entire progress of mankind ( science for short) or trillions of individual demonstrable pieces of evidence show that the proposition is false.

read this

https://home.cern/topics/large-hadron-collider

this accomplishment was achieved in this reality and demonstrates that "
"
You can't access the data only your perception of it, which is subjective and thus Everything appears to be "Fiction".
"""
is a fictional proposition.

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2017

"Me too. That's why I said a few pages earlier that I'm neither theist nor atheist. But people here don't seem to understand Buddhism, since they decided to count it as a traditional religion, despite the fact that neither Siddartha is a religious person, nor Bodhi any religious activity."




this is the poll

are you theism ( any version of god(s) souls supernatural or afterlives of any sort)

or are you atheist , no gods no soul sno afterlives no supernatural



so as you can see sir, i did not leave you out i was careful to not do such a thing. i wouldnt leave anyone out


if you go back to the beginning and read the thread you can see what it is actually about if you would like.

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2017

It depends, they both have ideological and philosophical components that we in the west tend to cherry pick out of the more spiritual and preternatural elements. They should be discussed separately because they differ too much from each other to lumped together. They are both also partial composites that absorbed a great deal and mingled with other spiritual traditions as they evolved through time.

Taoism especially has an entire pantheon of gods and can accommodate any number of major or minor deities, as well as ancestor worship and shamanistic tradition. It is complex in its reduced from in the same way Hinduism is - where Lao can be an analogue to Krishna to a certain extent. Pantheistic and pluralistic the Tao is not a primary concern for the followers, or as they say, The Tao that can be known and told is not the eternal Tao which can not be such. This has analogues in Western theology as the concept of the Godhead, the earliest concept of this is probably the Zoriastuc Ahura Mazda. Thought they are not direct analogues and differ greatly.

Buddhism is a different can of worms all together since it further abstracts the away the anthropomorphic deity, it even abstracts away the concept of a soul - anatta - skandhas are our perception of what we are right now but nothing of the ego carries over in rebirth... however the goal is not eternal bliss but nihilism as end to suffering which is the natural state of life - but nihilism contributes to something as well as..... So unless you are a perfect being and about to reach Nirvana it has many elements of traditional religion (Buddhas, Bodhisattva, Mara) and these are teaching aids for the mot part, since they are not point but more or less affixes. It gets complex but at its core it resembles atheism more than any sort of the synthesis amalgamation of both. It gets more complicated when you add in the different sects and traditions that can affix themselves to Buddhism.

Anyway am sure the internet will complicate things even more, and the above are very broad strokes that leave many gaps... it isn't a response or even an introduction but there are a great deal of book on both subjects. It hard to really deal with such broad topics even if this was a theology forum the questions being asked and answered are so broad that it is almost impossible to get to the point because it branches out in so many directions that it can not be reduced enough to actually have an answer.

 

Do you ever get the feeling this is turning into the usual willy waving competition that these kind of threads always end up as?

 

Really???

Altering a definition based binary proposition?

Maybe just let people believe in whatever they choose?
Go worship a tree if you desire? Does it matter?
If it makes for happiness and a more productive life then who really cares about definition based binary propositions

 

LMAOOO 10 pages WTF how is this still alive??

 

Chill dude. Your childish reaction, disconected from anything I wrote regarding your line of "thinking", show where those topics always go. You should be a grown up and be able to have a conversation without trying to look like a nasty little boy. You won't impress anyone.
Your baseless belief in whatever you believe in, aren't very interesting to me, I didn't try to convert you to anything, and regarding your so called nihilism all I did is to remind you that it's a path that is as much an irrational choice as any others.
You have of course every right to be an irrational dude, your superiority feeling about it isn't justified.

 

If I knew the intellectual dishonesty and just plain laziness of people to not even read though to see what the topic of discussion was,

I would have made the poll say.

Do you believe in any version of god(s) soul(s) supernatural or afterlife(s)"

or no version of those


If you believe in something that has any version of
god(s) soul(s) supernatural or afterlife(s)
how did you differentiate your belief from fiction?