I am sorry to say that you really are missing a rather important point. The thread was never about disproving anything, but rather about questioning the value of believing in god based on bad evidence and in this regard making a distinction between storytelling and non-fiction. Science certainly is in the (sucessful) business of debunking belief based on bad evidence though.

You are entitled to your point, but it is somewhat ironic to have you judging it pointless when you yourself seem to have failed to see the very point of the topic.

 

@MMJ2017
Dude, first of all why is so hard to grasp that guitar playing is one thing but super fast guitar playing needs training and practice which i didn't have at the time as i was originally a drummer and had only been playing guitar for 2-3 years ? Who is ignorant ? Can you read ? Have you read any of my other posts? 51 means been there done that, like more times than you can shake your stick at. Your points about invisible men in the clouds etc, i'm sorry but its all crap. Nobody believes in what you say lol unless they 're crazy and i certainly never mentioned anything like that. You keep interpreting words with your own twist trying to humiliate people for their beliefs and you even lack the charisma of doing it right man. Say whatever you like, it's a free world, you may be 37 but i sincerely doubt you have any depth whatsoever. Be well

 

Can you prove that it is a fiction?

 

it means, even that statment "nothing is not iterfering with nothing" is true and false...

to @farao, I wasn't trying to be on point with this topic... I stated just some random tought about god... later on, I was traying to clarify my statment... there is no point to debunk something to someone with science whene someone will not belive you, even if there are evidences right infront of his nose.
...for debate being pointless, even after your clarification, it stil is...
just that there is so much different views on this and any theme like this, that noone will change their mind or even start to questioning something... for me, if debate doesn't have any effect, then is pointless... but by being pointless, people are involved and there we have comunication, socialisation, etc... and if you are watching it form that point of view, then is not...
and by that goes that "but if being pointless is the goal, then this debate is on point!"

P.S.
that I have any better work to do, or any work at all, I wouldn't write here and especially in this topic... so the irony is true... I'm trying to be pointless for the sake of this topic, that people can continuie communicating... and I can see that is working just fine

 

That is interesting and if you start a thread on it. I would love to participate and explore that.

The conviction and faith I reference is on topic as to whether there is a belief in a some sort of deity and arguments for or against such a belief (proselytize) expanding that belief. If you want to talk about it and make people see and believe that is when you get into the religion territory.

You can believe that you make the best turkey sandwich (faith) and be convinced of that (you could not even conceive that anyone else could make a better turkey sandwich ever) but unless you start a cult to make other people believe the same thing as you - forever - your faith and conviction do not constitute religion.

As the cheese-worshiping Tyromancers of Nano would say... The Cheese is everywhere

Religion is like art, it is very hard to define outside of confirmation bias anything can be a religion.

 

For you to say that none is open to change and therefore the debate is pointless is just rediculous. Someone might very well change their mind. Words can have that effect even when it comes to die-hard-subjects. At the very least the distinction between fiction and non-fiction might convince someone "sitting on the fence".

 

I would be happy that this helps someone in his search for "truth"... but statistic is not on our side

You gave me idea, it would be nice that we have pool where we could see if there is any good of this. ...after some time

 

For me every person saved from delusion is positive. You can have a vote but that would not account for non members or people not answering. It will neither take in consideration people reading it in the future. "Statistics is not on our side" you say. Please tell me what statistics you are referring to? Most debates on youtube about god and religion where there is a before and after vote says you are wrong. The more well educated people are the more are their tendency to be atheists. The debate is not pointless. It is all we have.

 

go back and read my response it demonstrates that you made fictional propositions

 

statistic is next... this is music forum, pool of people is small and people just don't give a dime...
...if you want to buy car, you will not go on boat-show to buy it... but hey, why not?

 

"@MMJ2017why start this blog ask a question, then have all of the answers to it yourself. do you want the world to know that your an atheist? you could have just said that then said goodbye.If your looking for true answers, why debate and rebuttle everyone who see life different from you.you also claim that you don't need to hear stories about 2k yr old peasants? well my belief comes from passed down history about the man, CHRIST JESUS, who I have experienced for myself. Now just because you don't believe in him, don't try to jog off believers as fictional. In fact your the one thats fictional and have to believe harder then me in the god of nothingness. Everything from air to the distance of the sun from earth is just right for us to live in, and you think this is coincidence? The heavens declare GODS glory. I don't belief in plural gods either, but you do. See you believe in the god of self, evolution, science and nothingness. Wow bro your a real spiritual person after all, with a lot of faith. lol."





"why start this blog ask a question, then have all of the answers to it yourself."

not sure what that means




"do you want the world to know that your an atheist? "

dont know what you mean, i started a thread to have a discussion, to make points i dont see brought up or used all the time, and to see if anyone respond to me demonstrating that i am wrong,

in fact your comments dont account for a person making a distinction between reality and fiction.





"you could have just said that then said goodbye."


so could have you, but you didn't and i didn't are we BOTH assholes?




"you also claim that you don't need to hear stories about 2k yr old peasants? "


i dont remember saying that





"well my belief comes from passed down history about the man, CHRIST JESUS, who I have experienced for myself. "


ill be polite and say demonstrate that you have "experianced" jesus christ or in other words explain what that is supposed to mean.





" Now just because you don't believe in him, don't try to jog off believers as fictional."

can you give me an example of how he is not fiction?




" In fact your the one thats fictional"


so i am an figment of your imagination? they call that
Solipsism




"nd have to believe harder then me in the god of nothingness.
"

again i dont know how you expact me to understand what you mean by this, did you think "yes, i will type this and the person will know exactly what i mean by it and not be able to think that it supposed to mean more than one thing my intention"



" Everything from air to the distance of the sun from earth is just right for us to live in, and you think this is coincidence?


so 2 things out trillions upon trillions are good for us and that is supposed to convince me of something? how?





"The heavens declare GODS glory."

i dont know what that is supposed to mean, and i dont think you know what it is supposed to mean either.






"I don't belief in plural gods either, but you do."

and how would you know what i believe in even if i say i dont, however you dont think i know what you believe if i say you believe something you say you dont?

you belive in thor the god of thunder becuase you dont know how it works even if you say you dont.




"See you believe in the god of self, evolution, science and nothingness."


can you explain these gods to me i never heard of them , let me grab my popcorn.




"
Wow bro your a real spiritual person after all, with a lot of faith. lol."

"

and you are an earthworm with no eyes no ears no brain. oh wait what are we talking about?

 

the believer challenge
---------------------------


a human being finds themselves in a particular moment

they have their consciousness then their thoughts then their feelings their body and finally reality is outside of them but they are always inside of themselves in their consciousness.

the human is in a moment and find themselves having a thought. it is made of words which are virtual and symbolic
The thought is supposedly describing the outside reality , that is not in their consciousness but a description of " the way things actually work"

this is the challenge give me an example or situation for which that thought can be taken as correct about " the way things actually work" outside them in reality itself. how do they know if the thought is fiction or not? how do they evaluate the thought to find out how accurate it is? if you think there is a situation in any moment you ever find yourself in where you dont have to evaluate the thought , because it is automatically true about reality and it cannot be fiction let ma know this is the challenge. Second explain how the thought will not be a misunderstanding or flawed in any way , third list out exactly how and why it is not fiction and the exact differences it has from fiction.



this situation is the most important information a human being can ever hear about or find out about ever. it applies to each second of their life and everyone who ever existed before for their entire lives. this means we should be an expert at this system since right this moment you find yourself in this situation as do I.


give me an example of you believing in god(s) souls or afterlife , while at the same time evaluating each thought you have to make sure they are not fiction.

 

Last edited: Apr 18, 2017

"statistic is next... this is music forum, pool of people is small and people just don't give a dime...
...if you want to buy car, you will not go on boat-show to buy it... but hey, why not? "


how can you write this comment , for which you dont think is fiction?
go to page 1 all the way through to the end and consider the length of time it has been up the number of people contributing. these facts about reality would be impossible if your comment is true that means you wrote a proposition demonstrated to be false, which means when it first was a thought in your head you did not evaluate it do differentiate fiction from not fiction, you just had the thought and instantly wrote it for which we can now read it, and demonstrably show it is false by the evidence of the thread itself.

this process is the exact content and context of this thread itself go back and read all of page 1.

 

considering 73 posts from you in this topic and their lenght, I can assume that you are contributing to yourself...
so no, I will not read it form the page 1 nor I have any interest in this topic whatsoever... I just tried to clarify my random though and some aspects around it, so my job here is donne.

 

I did and your response was: "your answers are more ambiguous than the questions! you told us nothing! see what you did what called "make shit up" or fiction for short."
This statement doesn't prove that my answers are fiction it only states that, but if you can't elaborate I'll understand.

 

@MMJ2017
"i meditate everyday because i see that what makes "me" me is not my thoughts of feelings there is a deeper level than that, the thing that is " I am" is being in a present moment with awareness, from there anything that arises next like thoughts or emotions ,arise inside of consciousness on a level down that is not fundamental."
Do you consider this state of pure awareness to be fiction or reality?

 

It would be interesting if any believer in god here would take on the challenge. When noone will it should be a sign to everyone that no believer honestly can diffrentate their belief in god from fiction.

 

I think I can see what you are getting at here. If it has to do with The challenge above and its wording, then of course conciousness is reality, but the challenge encompasses the belief in a god outside of oneself. Just ignore my post if you asked for some other reason.

 

More of your incoherent mumbo jumbo babble? I'll pass.

 

Last edited: Apr 19, 2017

So many wise people enlighteening the masses with sacred knowledge, we are very lucky at AS.
All those very bright and rational debates, between perfectly sane persons, high level considerations really are needed in this underworld where we only talk about compressors, eqs and reverbs.
Thank you all so much for elevating us all and going where no one dares to go except higher beings !