i understand , and i didn't say that no one conforms to your belief, or that there are not some that live by the mantra "live and let live"
I said i like the idea, besides how can a person dislike the idea? they would have the mantra of Hitler 2.0 with the mantra " kill and be dead" my point is the consideration of reality itself the interactions of humans in the world and our systems in place how they operate.

 

Last edited: Apr 17, 2017

"
>> people "SAY" every combination and arrangement that words can go in but the only
>> combinations that are not fiction, are the ones that match reality or the way things
>> really work and the only way to tell if it is a match is to test and probe reality to see
>> what the real answer is.


There are infinitely more things to know directly through your own experience than you have nanoseconds of life remaining within your dying body. There are infinitely more which you'll never be able to know even if you had more nanoseconds.
You are trying to simplify the reality through the mechanisms of lossy compression called generalizations.
While it may work for some things for others it is totally futile.
There is a fruit which you never tested and no generalization or explanation will help you understand its taste until you bite it.
NDE does happen and to know what kind of experience this is you'll have to ask, watch and learn from those who passed through it.
If you (rightfully) disregard their explanation (which is quite consistent among survivors) the only other way is to try it directly, it can be induced. If you do, maybe you would start a different topic.

Theoretically speaking if God exists he created you and your mind. Since nothing existed before God made it so whatever exists comes out of him and is in essence a part of him. He made you out of himself. But you only appear to exist as there is no scientific proof that your mind (self aware being) exists. Only you can be sure that you exist (partially), others, me included, only pretend that you are because you are making waves here.
In effect we are blind believers that you exists (not really different from believing in God) because it is easier to assume so than to theorize that words and whatever waves you are creating came out by themselves which would be infinitely more probable than that the whole planet of unique self aware beings each with their own bags of words and waves came out of random movement of atoms and molecules which science is trying to find out but is not able to do so.
You can daydream characters of your original movie. Those characters have the same chance proving or disproving your existence as you have proving or disproving that your creator exists or doesn't. Scientifically they will have to assume that you probably don't exist.

Science (cells, E=mc2, etc) is no more and no less magical word than the God. Yes bag of words expanded with science but if you look closely science did not discover airplanes nor computers. We made it so by applying the power of imagination over matter out of pure desire.
Just like music."





















this sentence below is not a generalization, it is a fact of being in a moment of time as a human being.
"
people "SAY" every combination and arrangement that words can go in but the only
>> combinations that are not fiction, are the ones that match reality or the way things
>> really work and the only way to tell if it is a match is to test and probe reality to see
>> what the real answer is."










"There are infinitely more things to know directly through your own experience than you have nanoseconds of life remaining within your dying body."








this is the most ambiguous sentence i have ever heard , such that if all 7. 3 billion people on earth read it , each of them could take it in different yet mutually exclusive meanings and none of the people will know exactly what you intended to get across by saying it.






"
You are trying to simplify the reality through the mechanisms of lossy compression called generalizations.
While it may work for some things for others it is totally futile."



this is what i find peculiar , if it was the case that this comment is true a bout reality, meaning i am actually doing what you say, I for the life of me cannot figure out why you would NOT make a choice to respond with a comment which shows exactly how i did it, in which instances, in what location, and what was wrong with it. however the Irony is the decision you did make regarding the comment you responded with, was to write what you actually wrote, which is a generalization that goes into zero specifics never showing what i said and how it was a generalization how many times it happened and why it was wrong. I havnet seen as much irony in a long time, as a person stating that I am making generalizations that do not work , with a comment structured as generalized as humanly possible, thank you kind sir we all need the humor from time to time and i got my daily dose.

 

I understand, the problem grows exponentially.
Dumbed down version is:
Human mind is incapable to think scientifically about complex questions due to internal compression and loss of sensory data and its inherent inability to really understand anything in itself as opposed in relation to other things.
Driving force behind human mind is imagination and desire, not rational mind. Some people successfully imagine that they think scientifically probably because their girlfriends or wives have given up on trying to awake them to brutal reality.
If one's mind is rational and scientific it should be so in every segment of life, it wouldn't be able to suspend it's own nature.
Proof of existence of such life form I did not find yet but I appreciate the effort of those who try.

Regarding meditation, my question was philosophical: if your mind is without a thought you will remain still, yet after a few hours you say your mind resumes its "daydreaming" state. Theoretically if you suspended it as in no thought at all, without at least one moving idea mind wouldn't resume and on the other hand if it has a moving idea it isn't yet still.
Some say if you truly suspend your mind for just 15 seconds your mind will detach from false identification with your body and associated programming.

 

lets evaluate the truth value of your proposition sir.





Mrfloyd .. ."E=mc2, etc) is no more and no less magical word than the God." April 17th 2017

 

"....Theoretically speaking if God exists he created you and your mind. Since nothing existed before God made it so whatever exists comes out of him and is in essence a part of him. He made you out of himself....."



;D Theoretically speaking God also made the tree of the fruit of knowledge, LUCIFER and HITLER , so his track record is a bit spotty if you ask me! ;D

 

"
I understand, the problem grows exponentially.
Dumbed down version is:
Human mind is incapable to think scientifically about complex questions due to internal compression and loss of sensory data and its inherent inability to really understand anything in itself as opposed in relation to other things.
Driving force behind human mind is imagination and desire, not rational mind. Some people successfully imagine that they think scientifically probably because their girlfriends or wives have given up on trying to awake them to brutal reality.
If one's mind is rational and scientific it should be so in every segment of life, it wouldn't be able to suspend it's own nature.
Proof of existence of such life form I did not find yet but I appreciate the effort of those who try.

Regarding meditation, my question was philosophical: if your mind is without a thought you will remain still, yet after a few hours you say your mind resumes its "daydreaming" state. Theoretically if you suspended it as in no thought at all, without at least one moving idea mind wouldn't resume and on the other hand if it has a moving idea it isn't yet still.
Some say if you truly suspend your mind for just 15 seconds your mind will detach from false identification with your body and associated programming."






some really good points up here






"
Regarding meditation, my question was philosophical: if your mind is without a thought you will remain still, yet after a few hours you say your mind resumes its "daydreaming" state. Theoretically if you suspended it as in no thought at all, without at least one moving idea mind wouldn't resume and on the other hand if it has a moving idea it isn't yet still.
Some say if you truly suspend your mind for just 15 seconds your mind will detach from false identification with your body and associated programming.""



you are making the assumption that thought is the ground level of being but it is in fact a few levels below awareness, meaning thoughts is stacked upon awareness. feelings and emotions are stacked upon awareness.



"Theoretically if you suspended it as in no thought at all, without at least one moving idea mind wouldn't resume"



this actually is partially true in a way what happens is if you dont set an alarm you could stay in that state for 5 or more hours and when you finally get disrupted to the point of coming out of it , you fell like no time has past but its dark out etc. took me about 6 months before i finally realized i should set an alarm ( real genius right? ;D hahahaha)when i was just getting the system down years ago.


"you said your mind resumes it day dreaming state"

no, this is not what i said, my mind is not in a day dreaming state barely ever if at all, if you stay to long say 5 hours in the meditation what happens is you come out of it extremely groggy and disorientated to the point of having to basically go to sleep for a while its way to long to be in that state because the part of the meditation that can be helpful is only a narrow window of time, after that becomes detrimental probably not a shock though.

 

Last edited: Apr 17, 2017

@MMJ2017 you seem to be labouring under some illusion that humans have evolved since ancient times. We have not. We are still, and will still forever be doing exactly the same things, in essence, have the same pursuits, dreams and ambitions (to be more comfortable and have more 'things'). We still kill animals to eat. We shit, entertain ourselves and have the same love and hate for those who are different. On this point alone I would like to say that it would be refreshing to see the reality that we are, today, being forced and conditioned to for example accept homosexuality as normal, and like people of different races and accept all manner of things which deep down the majority of humans don't accept at all. Nasty things like violence, rage and hatred is still here in our human make-up. We are still jealous, greedy and manipulative. We steal, we hurt others without remorse. We have not evolved at all! I am not advocating any of the aforementioned as a way of living our lives. I am simply saying that the human condition has not chagned one little bit. We are still mamalian upstarts, only our tools have evolved. That does not mean that we have evolved. Our 'ideas' have damaged our state of mental health almost to beyond repair. We need to return to a much simpler way of life, among our own kind, small communities, ditch technology and ditch ideas, and just 'be.' That's how we will survive and thrive. [signed, the master devil's advocate lol].

 

Of course I am generalizing, I am just not deluding myself otherwise.

Human minds are generalization machines. This is how they work.
You don't have a choice so everything you are talking about is generalization on some level which is absolutely fine with me as long as we agree about the "facts/reality" hallucination.
You can focus more on something by spending more time/words and pictures and be more precise but you'll never escape generalization frame.
Every word is a generalization of the supposed meaning it carries, every memory engram (visual, auditory etc.) is generalization of a sensory event striped from unnecessary details. The less sensory related the word is the smaller chance is that it carries the meaning well.

Every abstraction is generalization and your original topic is filled with those.
Ir is your arbitrary choice to declare a level of generalization precise enough for you.
It would take forever to go down the rabbit hole to prove the point that we are daydreaming and hallucinating all the time.

It's time for me to empty the mind.

 

Through meditaion the mind can certainly be free of thought or "still" for quite some time and later "resume" thought as reaction to stimuli.

 

Oh, yes we have. Tree shrews couldn't play the trombone. Their arms were too short.

 

"@MMJ2017 you seem to be labouring under some illusion that humans have evolved since ancient times. We have not. We are still, and will still forever be doing exactly the same things, in essence, have the same pursuits, dreams and ambitions (to be more comfortable and have more 'things'). We still kill animals to eat. We shit, entertain ourselves and have the same love and hate for those who are different. On this point alone I would like to say that it would be refreshing to see the reality that we are, today, being forced and conditioned to for example accept homosexuality as normal, and like people of different races and accept all manner of things which deep down the majority of humans don't accept at all. Nasty things like violence, rage and hatred is still here in our human make-up. We are still jealous, greedy and manipulative. We steal, we hurt others without remorse. We have not evolved at all! I am not advocating any of the aforementioned as a way of living our lives. I am simply saying that the human condition has not chagned one little bit. We are still mamalian upstarts, only our tools have evolved. That does not mean that we have evolved. Our 'ideas' have damaged our state of mental health almost to beyond repair. We need to return to a much simpler way of life, among our own kind, small communities, ditch technology and ditch ideas, and just 'be.' That's how we will survive and thrive. [signed, the master devil's advocate lol]."




"you seem to be labouring under some illusion that humans have evolved since ancient times"




not sure what you mean by this but are you considering all the variables such as cultural revolution impact, the impact of knowledge since back then and the variables of societal, not to mention psychological, physiological and mental since then? i don't get what you are saying the only thing that is the same as back then is the physical structure of our body and brain, nothing else is the same!






"We have not. We are still, and will still forever be doing exactly the same things, in essence, have the same pursuits, dreams and ambitions (to be more comfortable and have more 'things'). We still kill animals to eat. We shit, entertain ourselves and have the same love and hate for those who are different."







have not what? (spend 5 seconds of your life googling general EQ scores of human beings just over say a 50 year period.) doing the same things as what meeting human requirements? have we been using google since the stone age? you are just picking out some same things that we did then and not talking about the rest!









"On this point alone I would like to say that it would be refreshing to see the reality that we are, today, being forced and conditioned to for example accept homosexuality as normal,"


in fact it has always been normal for mammals 10 percent have always had homosexual tendencies on regular basis ,given the latest scientific research.













"and like people of different races and accept all manner of things which deep down the majority of humans don't accept at all."


i dont know what you mean by that







"Nasty things like violence, rage and hatred is still here in our human make-up."

do you mean to say those thing occur in human behavior ? i dont know what you mean by "makeup"







"We are still jealous, greedy and manipulative."


hold on here ,these words describe specific set of thoughts experience and circumstances regarding a human beings misunderstandings ( maybe that is what you meant by that)









"We steal, we hurt others without remorse."


hold on now, the reality of human beings doing those things is a complex issue of cause and effect from the thought process down to the societal structures we have including the concepts of reward and punishment , it is impossible to make a generalization like that and have it match to reality itself the way those things actually work. you have to talk about them as they exist in reality.








"We have not evolved at all!"


WRONG not only have we evolved in every area possible ( except for physical structure) exponentially ,we have taken our physical brain almost to its limits and yet soon with the advent of artificial intelligence we will use silicone technology to embed computers into our minds and extend its capacity beyond its mere physical limitations regarding operations per second and neural networking.

 

Lets evaluate the truth value of this particular proposition

Exhibit A




Exhibit B



Thankful " I am simply saying that the human condition has not changed one little bit.:" April 17th 2017
"

 

"Ditch technology"... "Ditch ideas"... Seems like a great world to live in... Not.

 

Last edited: Apr 17, 2017

We don't need these questions now. They're for the previous generations or people have got tired of life. Knowing how the universe has been created does not change anything. So please don't waste your time and enjoy the life.
People all over the world love western world mainly because of dismissing such topics.

 

"
Of course I am generalizing, I am just not deluding myself otherwise.

Human minds are generalization machines. This is how they work.
You don't have a choice so everything you are talking about is generalization on some level which is absolutely fine with me as long as we agree about the "facts/reality" hallucination.
You can focus more on something by spending more time/words and pictures and be more precise but you'll never escape generalization frame.
Every word is a generalization of the supposed meaning it carries, every memory engram (visual, auditory etc.) is generalization of a sensory event striped from unnecessary details. The less sensory related the word is the smaller chance is that it carries the meaning well.

Every abstraction is generalization and your original topic is filled with those.
Ir is your arbitrary choice to declare a level of generalization precise enough for you.
It would take forever to go down the rabbit hole to prove the point that we are daydreaming and hallucinating all the time.

It's time for me to empty the mind."






Im not sure how many times i have to say that words are not real but virtual they are symbols and only have value when they can represent reality to the best of our ability i know my mind is flawed but i have been speaking about a way to be even more flawed! that is to not even differentiate between reality and fiction during each moment, for each thought, idea, proposition or concept had or sentence spoken, just imagine the flaws of the mind as they are BUT on top of that a person cares not if anything think is fiction or not every thing they say is fiction or not im simply making the differentiation BECAUSE of how flawed the mind is we MUST get data from reality to say something about it!( lot of agreement with you in there haha)








"Human minds are generalization machines. This is how they work."


exactly thats what my joke was meant to be in that other post oh well haha scientific humor just ain tt he same as sex humor i guess haha




most of us think our thoughts are true and are feelings are true and what we experience is real that's all false




"You can focus more on something by spending more time/words and pictures and be more precise but you'll never escape generalization frame."{




i agree its just the way we will always be, at least until man fuses with machine possibly ,AI is going to change everything and mostly likely itll change us too. if that happens maybe we will generalize a bit less haha



"
Every abstraction is generalization and your original topic is filled with those.
Ir is your arbitrary choice to declare a level of generalization precise enough for you.
It would take forever to go down the rabbit hole to prove the point that we are daydreaming and hallucinating all the time.

It's time for me to empty the mind.""



now that i understand you meant these comments as a description of the human condition itself i def have to agree. however it is important to note we still are able to differentiate between fiction and not fiction enough to get by basically it could be a lot worse we could be earthworms haha!

 

"
We have not evolved at all!
Oh, yes we have. Tree shrews couldn't play the trombone. Their arms were too short."



BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYH B BMP BAH BAY BPT BAYH BAHWAWAWAW B BA BA BAAABA BA BWHAH BWAMP BMPAH ding tshshshshshs woosh!

 

INTERMISSION

 

If you take exhibit B and zoom in you'll find some kind of exhibit A in most cities of the world.

Btw: Your poll made God exist in the social space of this forum.
(People discussing if I exist: always fun!)

Edit: had confused A and B before. Me omniscient, ha!

 

Last edited: Apr 18, 2017

AND a SHOT of the HARD STUFF! ;D

 

"
We don't need these questions now. They're for the previous generations or people have got tired of life. Knowing how the universe has been created does not change anything. So please don't waste your time and enjoy the life.
People all over the world love western world mainly because of dismissing such topics."



I cant wait until this comment is true! that is my goal by talking about the entire topic! to bring forth a world for which we evolved past it and leaders can get elected in the u.s. without being mandatory Christian! haha


serious though it is not the case that god existing or not has no impact on human existence, in reality it greatly impacts every single aspect of our lives , whether individuals daily thought, whether individuals description making , or how our governments operate which bills are passed how our laws are written which people are in positions to impact the planet i could spend an hour listing out the ways the question impacts every area of life!